The Slow Combat


#1

I’ve been watching videos and previews of all the released content of Kingdom Come Deliverance since 2016 and I have to say I am very dissapointed with the combat, it has the same problem as Mount and Blade, and all the other medieval games made for PC. The combat animations are REALY slow. I studied Aikido for 7 years (includes 7 years of weapons training) and if you attack or move that slow in combat, you’ll be dead 3 times over before your attack would hit. And this includes Kingdom come as well, the animations have no force behind them and the attacks are far too slow. I somewhat fixed this in Skyrim with a weapons mod I made that made weapons attack 25%-50% faster and it made the game much more enjoyable. It made combat challenging and more reactive, and gave you a reason to get better and combat skills rather than jsut standing there on one spot bashing the enemy. which is another problem I have with Kingdom Come.

Not only does the combat is Kingdom Come look realy slow, it devolves to a game of Rock Paper Sissors, the enemy picks Rock and holds his sword above his head, You pick paper and hold your sword to the side, he attacks and hits you on the head, and then you attack hitting him on the arm. In Aikido as soon as he’d raise his arms you’d chop off his hands, but not Kingdom Come, no with Kingdom Come you’d have to wait till he gets tired, a trained soldier taught to endure hours of combat, gets tuckered out after a couple of swings, and then once hes tired, no matter how much armour he has you can stab his full plate mail with a fork and kill him. in Martial Arts you stick your sword in between the plates in his armour or under the neck if hes wearing a helmet, theres no spending 10 minutes dancing back and forth, fights are over in seconds.

And one more thing, that horrible lock on mechanic, ok yes the game is made for console kiddies who cant move thier view while dodging left and right, so what do you do? add lock on so no matter where you are you are allways looking at him and remove the ability to dodge, your just walking around him in circles playing rock paper sissors untill someone else comes up and stabs him or you. Which is another problem, they said in the video that if he has a freind with him then his freind will be fighting you as well. well from what I’ve seen his freidns just stand there and wait thier turn.

In all the videos, that skirmish at the bandit camp devolves into all the fighters just circling each other in some silly dance and the only ones doing any damage are the archers.

Sure I’ll probably buy the game way down the line when its on sale for 75% off on steam, as the only reason to buy it would be to immerse my self in a decent “based on a true story” part of history. The game world (map) is far too small (no potato landscape means there will only be a few large open fields with nothing in them) and as good as the graphics look in the videos every AAA game looks good these days, even now we got Cry Engine and Unity and the Unreal engine availible for cheap for indie developers so every game these days looks good, so having that as a selling point is meaningless.

Lets hope for better combat mechanics from Mount and Blade II, but judging by the previous games the combat will be even slower.

Also: Are we able to turn of the lock on mechanic and that horrible crosshair?


#2

Wow, the amount of WRONG in single post is incredible :smiley:


#3

The overwhelmingly false information in this statement is…
Are you a troll? Like seriously? I just can’t even respond… Have you looked at the gameplay recently? AI team up on you and can kill you… In a larger skirmish they don’t because there are so many friendlies around to attack.
Posted a samurai video in the end… Must be troll…


#4

Good points. Though I have seen a video presenting faster reactions, unlike those in latest presentations. https://youtu.be/SnKbKkhHXrQ watch in 3:10 & 3:30.
https://youtu.be/ymjbRSmz3UI watch in 0:45 he actually uses shield unlike in other videos & 2:22 also faster reactions & 3:40 probably the best example how it should look in most cases, even 2 opponents were active, though they are still standing in front of player.
Mount & Blade is not slow, unless you play on Easy difficulty.


#5

I wouldn’t call it slow, but it’s not faster than any other game like it, like WOTR, Chiv, and Mordhau.

Map is as large as Skyrim.

Wouldn’t call that small. I have no idea what you’re comparing it to.

A very large portion of the map has very dense forests, there aren’t really many “open fields” . I suggest you watch more videos, or if possible play the beta. Running around exploring was actually my favorite part of the beta.


#6

Confucius say: “With ants in the pants all of the time, there is no dull or boring moments in life at anytime”.

Clickfest your life away, while I’ll be enjoying the finer things in life!

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#7

“Good points. Though I have seen a video presenting faster reactions, unlike those in latest presentations. https://youtu.be/SnKbKkhHXrQ11 watch in 3:10 & 3:30.”

That looks much better than all I’ve seen of the footage I’ve seen so far.

That video is from 2014 and the slow gameplay footage is from the 2015/2016 Beta. I hope they didnt dumb it down.


#8

The beta is very out dated now compared to the version the devs have right now.
When you talk slow, are you meaning the slow motion parts when you parry at the right time, or do you actually mean slow overall?
Plus it isnt exactly all about stamina or rock paper sciccors. Doing special combos will hurt them more than just a simple strike. Also, finding areas that arent protected by armor and hitting them will be more effective than just striking randomly.
One last thing You need to consider is these techniques are based on 1400’s martial arts, and this is a game. Devs said that some strikes they just wont impliment because it was 1 fps. They have tried their best on balancing reality and fun and hopefully they have achieved it.
One more thing to consider is to look up hema matches. While yes, they are faster than the game, I do think that the game has done a decent job with speed and techniques. Also with hema (from what I’ve seen) they just do one hit you lost kind of deal. I am not sure if they simulate armor hits and what not.


#9

Yeah this combat looks horrible. Nothing like that video from 2014, Lets play Rock Paper Sissors and walk slowly around each other in circles with our swords up. Oh I’ve locked on to the wrong person, I guess his buddy is going to walk up to me and gut me cause my aim is locked to the guy behind him. Yeah, this combat looks terrible. Oh I’ve run out of stamina, Im dead.


#10

How many things do you know about this game and how many thing have you watched and read to understand why things became like that? Use your mind to understand things. What about locking, it’s simple - MMB for winners(After release you can change on whatever button you want and it’s gonna be super-fast to change between enemies). About Rock-Paper-Scissors: It’s how AI is made, cus this game mechanics were made for around duel battles 1 vs 2 and etc. + Game builds aren’t the full game, cus there’s nothing is omptimized and all the stuff, which can’t be judged till release. There’re many things to tell, but less to hear.

P.S Take it easy and relax. When the game is gonna be released we can judge after that, but till the moment it’s just a fog of mystery. :face_with_monocle:


#11

Oh hats off or them trying to make an authentic style of combat of the time. Hats back on for the implementation. Lock on? Honestly? Thats a console port right there.

You can polish a turd but its still a turd.


#12

Again, use your mind. How do you expect to play with such a combat system without this lock? Explain, pls. If you can, i would be glad to read your theory + This game was made on PC before even considering to make it on consoles(4 years before this moment). :face_with_monocle:


#13

We’ve got a keyboard with 50+ key on it, we’ve got gaming mice with buttons all over them, and countless combiantions of button presses, You want to do a chop, how about pressing Forward and click, or maybe you want to do a cut to the neck, how about you press forward+right and click, or say you want to cut upwards, how about pressing crouch+click. in Aikido you keep your sword in front of you at all times to defect attacks unless you want to trick them into making the first move, you dont just run around a battle with your sword up, youll get stabbed. Sword are swung in an arch, anything that is in that ark gets hit, life does not have a lock on function, its for console noobs who cant use the little stick to keep thier view on the enemy.

To this day there is not any realistic sword fighting game.


#14

This game with recorded animations, that can’t work like you said about it(Or want to). I see, that you don’t know much things about game dev. and how things does work. The only way to make the game you’re talking about is VR or making it like sticks(M&B, chivalry and etc.) where are just animated moves without mo-cap. , but it’s gonna look like… y’know. But, VR technologies are still not that good for this + PCs are powerful, but not many people can afford such a this, so it gonna be around 5-12 years before this moment, when we’re gonna be able to get games in VR with free movements roam to do what are you talked about.

P.S This game is more closer to it in showing how does it looked around 15th century, but no one said, that the game is 146% REALISTIC martial arts simulator.

P.S.S This thread like many others i read for 4 years on this forum is just pointless like with “yellow dot”. People are just wasting their time on the obvious things, but i can understand, that want to talk about something and etc. , but it’s just so… I don’t how to even name it. :sweat_smile:


#15

I am a retired Game Dev

The only thing realistic about this game is the setting, animation and art styles. But thats just a wrapping, the first thing you see. The game play is what keeps players coming back.

And yeah get rid of that yellow dot, the first thing I did in Skyrim was get rid of the crosshair.


#16

You’re like 5% of the people here are lone wolfs. Wait for modders and your life is gonna be shiny and bright. But, tbh, this thread is pointless. If you want to make a thread with hating, make it good. :wink::ok_hand: Give some info about some projects with already made things, that looking better at sword fighting, than this game and etc. Some people made threads about wrong made helmets and stuff about cumans and they did research and gave info about it, so it was good thread. It showed, that developers did some things wrong about cumans cloth and armors with bows, but at the end it looked interesting, not just whole WRONG. Some people were crying about bad facial animation or it looked like crap, but they haven’t seen the whole game with fixed things just builds with everything made fast without optimization. Some people want to get L.A Noire facial animations, but they can’t understand, that L.A Noire isn’t fully open world game with thousands NPCs and etc.

P.S Just use your mind and everything is gonna be simple. :wink:


#17

I came here to give feedback on something I saw was wrong with the game play. From what theyve shown of the combat in the Beta build I probably wont buy this game which I was realy looking forward to unless its on a heavy sale.

The most realistic sword fighting game I’ve seen is Bushido Blade


#18

Kohai, you choosed the wrong game, i guess. :sweat_smile: It’s not for you. I see, that you fan of japanese culture(cus you mention parts of it a lot), but the game you showed is just fighting with one hits(or 2) kills. Yeah, i do remember this game, but it’s not even close to modern standards and developing either. This’s not realistic, even close. You seem like troll for me, tbh. :face_with_monocle: But, ok, sleeping is calling for my mind, so i hope, that you rethink your thoughts at the end, sooner or later.


#19

Sword above head is quite common ACTUAL Hema pose - from real fighting. Not everrything is Aikido you know? And europeans definitely didn´t use japanese fighting techniques lol.

About speed of combat - as somebody with many hours of combat in KCD, I can tell you that it is fast enough. Sometimes, when your RPG stats are too low, its even TOO fast as you have basically no time to react and everybody except for few 15year old SF or MK hardcore player will get their ass kicked.

The thing is, that KCD is RPG, NOT combat simulator. So speed of combat is dependent on your stats vs enemy stats - if you are more skilled than your enemy, enemy seems slower - and in this game he will actually be slower, giving you more time to react or bypass his defense. So believe me, if you try attacking trained soldier at the start of the game, he will be so fast that you wont even see the blade which just chopped you to pieces.

Issue with overall speed is of course simple:
In real life, you relly on your training+instincts + you have instant reaction: Eye->brain->muscle. With good training it even goes eye->muscle.
In game, you have many delays, slowing your reaction time: response of the monitor->eye (eye detection with lower FOV is also slower!)->brain->muscle->keyboard/mouse->game reaction time.
KCD devs TRIED to implement combat at full realistic speed, but nobody was actually able to do anything. But believe me, in game it actually feels quite fast.

As for lock on: your proposed solution is some random kiddie bullshit. Actual strikes and techniques are not just simple “chops”. You chop grass or trees, but you don´t chop armed enemies, thats just retarded. Thats why lock ON is important, it allows more control of combat. You can change your enemies by scroll wheel, or you can press shift to unlock and lock to new enemy at any single time. You can of course also block/parry/hit enemies that are NOT lcoked on currently, you just wont have that visual cue in your crosshair to enhance timing.

Stamina is also rapidly regenerating, and it doesn´t substitute overall energy - when you run out of stamina, you are not going to lie in mud unable to move like after marathon, it just means you unleashed all your acumulated energy and need to catch breath before doing it again. You probably also can´t swing 5kg hammer for 20 minutes in row with the same intensity. (I bet most people can´t do full powered swings even for 30 sec in row). Thats what stamina represents.

When stamina is low, it represents that you have lower control of your body, that means that even strikes on plated armor can hurt your muscles by impact force, shatter your bones, disclocate joints etc - thats why you take damage in this case - but be aware that even in this case the damage is much lower then if you are not armored at all. You can become literally walking human tank, when only the heaviest blunt weapons can do any substantial damage to you, unless you fuck up badly.


#20

I stopped listening after “7Years Aikido” and “retired Game Developer” and calling “Console Kiddies”.

Don´t buy the game, end of story have a happy life!