To the guy who came up with lock-on

Gameplay
#1

I hope your coworkers slap you in the face every god damn day they see you.

No, seriously. Whoever came up with auto-target slowing you down and locked on to a target while trying to run needs to be slapped repeatedly. Never in my whole life have I played a game where a mechanic that SOUNDS good on paper is this infuriating.

I have died many times in this game. And almost always, yes, practically all the time, it’s because I was ambushed by multiple targets, and I cant run away. I will hold my shift (run) button to undo the lock-on, turn around… and immediately take SEVERAL “free hits” from the enemy. Literally the only thing I can do at this point is HOPE my armor holds, and HOPE I can outrun them. Very sometimes, I get just far enough away that I can call my horse. But seldomly can I do this without taking grave amounts of damage.

Why? What on earth were the creators thinking with this system? Henry is a peasant but he’s not so effing dumb to think “Oh there’s 4 guys attacking me, lets TURN AROUND PAINSTAKINGLY SLOWLY WHILE SOMETIMES FACING ONE OF THEM AGAIN FOR A SECOND”. If they have a dog, thats practically a reload.

Im enjoying this game. I can deal with Henry’s bizzare 5th dimensional aim (I have practiced archery myself, wtf is up with his aim???). I can deal with this seemingly random-ass clinch mechanic that seems to never go into your favor until you’re wearing heavy plated armor (and even then Ive lost to light-armor wearing bandits). I can deal a myriad of the strange mechanics in this game, Ive grown fond of some of them.

But the lock-on is the single most immersion-breaking, game-experience-ruining mechanic of it all. This isn’t a “git gud” thing. I can perfect block, counter etc (though to a degree, I cant do this 1v3 or 1v4, much less with a dog involved). This is purely a game mechanic that has no business being permanently enabled unless I disable it (at a time where its usually too late).

A simple fix? Have the lock on activate when the player actually activates it. Keep it turned off, at the cost of the player being less accuracte on where they want to hit. At least it gives me a bit of a fighting chance against multiple opponents, as well as not having to deal with that RIDICULOUS “lets force the camera back on your target. No no, you dont need to turn away, face your fears like the moronic peasant you are” attitude.

My apologies for the rant but… holy god losing an hour worth of “progress” due to this poorly implemented mechanic is just not fun. (though my quest was bugged anyway, so “progress” is a loose term. Kings Silver quest btw). I really want to love this game, and I am doing so… just not this thing.

4 Likes
#2

I wouldnt want to slap the guy but it is a shit mechanic.
“fight 4 guys but you can only comfortably fight 1 of them at a time”

I would so love to be able to remove the lock on feature at the cost of accuracy. Chivalry and Mordhau do it soooo much better. Albeit their combat is less realistic but im sure you could make non-lock on combat realistic with a bit of effort.

2 Likes
#3

exactly. plus, the lock-on is VERY unrealistic in a group fight to begin with. Nobody can tell me that when there’s a group targeting you you explicitely only pay attention to this one guy.

1 on 1, it’s an excellent idea and implementation. But even with a 2 on 1, oh boy… it becomes incredibly annoying. And again, dogs make it even worse because you simply won’t outrun them. Sure it takes maybe 2-3 hits… but you’re very vulnerable for other enemies, and the lock on system returns the MOMENT you have to quit running or take hits (stamina loss)

All in all, I cant believe this is still part of the game.

5 Likes
#4

the worst part about it for me is how sticky it is, it tries to lock on itself and makes decisions for you.

3 Likes
#5

Completely unlocked is terrible too. Then you have something with exaggerated and unrealistic movement like the many third person games.

They were going for something different, first person with some sense of realism. I don’t think they completely succeeded, and there’s a lot of room for criticism, but is anything better that even comes close to being realistic? I can’t comment on the dogs, because they weren’t in the game when I played, but I never found myself in combat I couldn’t simply ride away from. I also didn’t waste my time killing every random peasant bandit I saw.

I really like Mount and Blade’s control system, but not in first person, and I wouldn’t call it very realistic either.

I haven’t tried Chivalry or Mordhau, but Chivalry in particular just ends up being a lot of spinning around. I have seen videos of both, and neither seem realistic.

Regardless of the system, I am confident there would be people complaining about it. Combat isn’t really the focus of the game. It’s mostly very narrative driven. There’s a LOT of dialogue. The game itself can be finished in under two hours. It’s all the talking, exploring, and pointless fighting that people spend time on.

If I was going to criticize anything as the main problem with the game, it would be the fact that it’s too linear. Runt is immortal in your first encounter. Even if you kill everyone in the bandit camp, the instanced battle proceeds as normal. The same is true of the stealth mission. You can kill everyone. You can explore the entire castle, if you get the enemies to open the doors for you, and there are no hostages. There is no way to win that fight.

That, and the unsatisfying ending.

1 Like
#6

Completely unlocked is terrible too. Then you have something with exaggerated and unrealistic movement like the many third person games

But I’d be able to run away. Maybe get a hit in if multiple targets chase me. At the very least I want the freedom to enable or disable this mechanic. And if it means you get a semi-skyrim like combat system for group combat… so be it. Its not like you can realistically win these encounters anyway so its not a big issue if you run away. Which, at the moment, is simply a disaster.

But being forced into a battle by a lock-on system that actually drags you into the combat you’re trying to avoid is even less realistic than any other combat system currently around. And thats my issue with it.

I can’t comment on the dogs, because they weren’t in the game when I played,

They bite you, and keep you pinned (again with the bloody camera FORCIBLY aimed downwards, at the dog, that you NEED to attack in order to free yourself, while completely incapable of defending the owner bashing your skull in)

I never found myself in combat I couldn’t simply ride away from. I also didn’t waste my time killing every random peasant bandit I saw.

sometimes I can run away. Sometimes I can not. But in both events, its a damn trial in and by itself. And the ONLY reason running away is a trial is… yup, the game FORCING you to lock into enemies one by one.

Most of the encounters I have are during fast travel. Ive made it a habit to immediately, before even seeing an enemy, turn tail and run away. Literally because I feel that if I dont, I’ll die due to this shoddy mechanic. If its enemies I see from a distance, I usually have less trouble with them. But again, thats due to the mechanic not locking me in against my will due to the distance.

I cant critisize the story of the game as I dont think Im even halfway through. But this mechanic, oh it’s at the top of my hate list in this game.

1 Like
#7

The lock on isn’t going to change, but if your most frustrating moments are not being able to run away, then you need two perks. The first is sprinter, which you can get at vitality level 3. The second is seven mile boots, at maintenance level 3. With those two alone you’ll be able to run from pretty much anyone.

Your speed, visible in the character stats page, goes up with agility, and is also affected by what you’re wearing. If you’re faster, and have more stamina, they will never catch you.

If you’re having trouble with fast travel encounters, scout lets you skip them more easily, or at the very least be warned about them earlier, making it easier to avoid them completely. I can’t say I had that problem either. Once you learn where the encounters are, you can just avoid them too if you like.

#8

I think it’s only there for advanced combat mechanics, like combos, which are useless outside single combat anyway.

This is due to six mechanics:

  • the damage you suffer depends mostly on how much stamina you’ve left
  • blocking hits depends heavily on who you’re targeting, and unlike the AI you can’t target what you can’t see
  • the AI doesn’t seem to lose stamina from sprinting
  • the tackle mechanic is biased heavily against the enemy (because the AI can tackle you even when you’re facing them and they don’t drain as much or any stamina from running, so they still have enough to hit you with
  • unless you block the enemy will hit you with a combo (but not vice versa, as the AI can block and riposte attacks aimed at their back!)
  • combos and other attacks that damage you when you have low stamina seem to ignore armor completely (if you survive this, you will notice your armor is hardy dented).

The lock-on is hard to dispense with, but other mechanics seem to be there for “difficulty” reasons. Recent combat-relevant updates seem to exploit these mechanics further by making the AI run around you like bunch of tireless loons, forcing your auto lock into one of them, and allowing others to combo you in the back.

Given what Warhorse is doing in terms of modification of combat mechanics, I wouldn’t expect them to care.

Also clinching depends mostly on warfare and the relevant weapon skill, and is bugged. If you start clinching and get hit by another enemy, the clinch restarts, which could lead to a clinching loop that ends up with you dead. The only solution is not to resist during the clinch when it happens, because the enemy will simply push you away. I wrote support concerning this, but they asked me for a recording. As if these clowns don’t play their own game.

1 Like
#9

They do. Eventually they slow down. Stamina from 0-33% regenerates faster than 34-100% If you’re sprinting after them. Then waiting for yours to regenerate completely, you’ll never catch them.

Some have more stamina than others. I noticed this during the gambling in the Hans DLC. After you duel them, then tell them to drop their weapon, they run, and run and run… Some were easier to catch than others, but all were able to be caught if you had the buffs I mentioned before, and you weren’t carrying much.

No. It depends 100% on relative strength, modified by the perk, and how fast you click from when the clinch begins.

#10

Are you sure? I lose clinches quite often despite fast reaction time and a strength of 20. Higher relative weapon skills seem to work.

More than once an enemy with a health within 5-10% value ran away despite me hitting them with the back with a mace. They don’t seem to slow down after they’ve laid down their arms.

#11

Clinches are pretty fool proof if you are very high level strength and have a good weapon, as mentioned by others.
The problem before with clinches was they were a weapon of mass destruction in that you ALWAYS got a free hit in after a successful clinch. Now the problem is there is a totally random chance that you will get said free hit. Even if you win the clinch your enemy might be able to parry your free hit no matter how well equipped they are and no matter who they are: Cuman, knight, peasant etc.
The way clinches used to work was OP, the way they work now makes them redundant. Warhorse should have implemented them better by tying the success of your free hit to your combat lvl vs your enemies combat lvl or something similar. You can win a clinch based on your strength vs your enemies strength so why cant earning a free hit be based on something solid too? Nothing is more frustrating than random chance, it’s a participation mechanic rather than a skill based one which appeals to noobs rather than people who have taken the time to learn combat.

The other problem with clinches is how damn glitchy they are. Notice how sometimes you can get stuck in a clinch while other enemies hit you? This wouldnt be a problem if there was some way out of it but there isnt.
Or have you noticed how if you are locking on to one enemy then another comes out of nowhere and goes directly into a clinch with you, you win this clinch then morph straight into another clinch with the guy you were previously locked onto then back and forth until something else happens to break the sequence.

To me clinches just seem like another great idea that was put into practice without being fully thought out.

Also, someone mentioned that the game is supposed to be more narrative driven than combat/open world RPG driven. I like story heavy games where the player is relatively restricted in what they can do. However, KCD was marketed as a true open world RPG where you can fuck around and do what you want and this is why i bought the game. Unfortunately it seems that the game did turn out to be story heavy and quite controlling in what you the player can do. Like i said though, i like this but its not what i signed up for and its not what was on the label.

1 Like
#12

I like the riskiness of going into grappling distance of one opponent, while his friends are trying to hit you with their pointy sticks. The obvious solution to you at that point is to hold you so his friends can wail on you… which is what they now do.

Solution. Don’t abuse wrestling one opponent while outnumbered.

It is extremely common in historical fencing to perform grapples, throws or disarms if measure closes, and a near commonplace in messer to take the opponent’s sword hand or hilt if he remains static in a bind for a heartbeat - pull him off balance and then ‘attack or disarm in any way which seems suitable’.

#13

Yeah, I agree it is a viable tactic that you would expect to be used.
My point is that it is extremely janky and obviously unintended. I dont like to call bugs features just because they can pass as such.

1 Like
#14

oh gee, what a surprise. I went to skalitz for that treasure quest, and I was ambushed by 3 soldiers I hadnt seen. you guessed it, I tried to run away, one of them was just too close so the camera is like “HEY LOOK AT THIS GUY”, slowing me down JUST enough for the other two to catch up. tried running, and running, but nothing escapes those NPC’s with their fucking eagle eyes.

Died, lost half an hour of progress.

Fuck your lock-on, and again; I hope you get slapped so much you forget which parts of you are still functioning.

1 Like
#15

The issue isn’t lock/unlock per se. The issue is implementing a game mechanic that frustrates/overrides player intention.

Magnetism pulling or pushing me as a player without physical contact and without me moving the key/joystick in the direction might preserve the fechtbuch feel but it’s overriding my intention. Not a fan

Not sure what to make of this. If combat isn’t a focus, then lock mechanic (that’s supposed to simulate aspects of fechtbuch) should disappear immediately

2 Likes
#16

Wonder if you tried this. In bastards, get in the ring and fight the guy with 2-handed sword to win the item. Do NOT use a weapon. Get him in the corners. And then, clinch and beat the piss out of him. When stam gets low, break and refill stam. Dodge if needed. Rinse, repeat. Took me forever but I clinched, kneed and punched his arse into submission.

Remember this is a professional merc w a long sword. Crying uncle because an unarmed fighting novice (Henry - you) overwhelms him. To say it was OP is an understatement

I guess that’s changed now.

1 Like
#17

in previous versions of the game you could bat anyone without ever taking a hit if you were able to beat them in a clinch so this doesnt surprise me.

#18

I forgot that jerks name, the one who owes henry’s father some money? I actually lost to him in unarmed combat several times. Not to punches, no. Clinch combos. Ive actually lost to him in a combat where he’d run up to me, clinch, damage, INSTANTLY clinch again, rinse repeat. I wasnt against a wall, nor against an NPC. Just a wide open area and no matter what I did, he’d just clinch me to a defeat. This happened once with just clinches alone, and several times with multi-clinches, then punching me in a combo (that I couldnt break out of or dodge/defend), and then clinch me again.

While I can see the appeal of the idea, the implementation is done horribly

1 Like
#19

clinch to win. not as common now after patching but still possible against any unarmoured opponent.

#20

I believe there is a game which devs should watch for perfect lock-on implementation - it’s For Honor. You hold “block” key - you’re locked on, you release - you’re free to turn and go in any direction.

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