What is Henry's social status?

Story & Setting
#30

Well, even at this point in history, Central Europe wasn’t hugely developed. By the mid 1300s, a fair amount of the forests had been cleared for use, but it would only be around 1500 or so where the amount of new land became difficult to find and old baronies started becoming smaller. By the 1600s the process was pretty much complete.

Holy Roman Empire was a bit strange, as there were a number of quasi independent republics (often city states) and theocracies within. Sometimes tensions flared, particularly when the Holy Roman Empire desired to exercise more control over the Imperial Free Cities, but most were governed to some extent by nobility of some station - and overthrowing a lord was fairly rare. Stratification in the HRE was a bit complex, and even historians alive during that period had a difficult time figuring it out. Nevertheless, it did exist.

And, yes - I’m not sure that the stratification of society is depicted well in the game, particularly as it’s hard to determine why you’re calling everyone “sir”, and have to really dig to find out what titles they might actually hold. All the nobles appear to be the same rank in conversation, which is not the case. As far as Henry can tell, everyone is either a peasant, or a “sir”, when in reality it was more complex than that - and people were quite aware of the social stations of others.

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#31

In medieval Japan, Korea and elsewhere, it’s crystal clear… even after setting aside body language (bowing, etc), the use of language markers is obvious. For Japanese and Korean, it’s elaborated well beyond the tu-vous distinction. Does/did Czech employ something akin to tu-vous, something more, something less? Perhaps, English has denuded the contrast

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#32

A good point, and even in English it was considered improper to address someone as “Thou” when speaking to nobility. You would use “Thou, Thy, Thine” and other terms when speaking to family, friends, and inferiors. “You” would be for your betters. “My Lord/Lady”, “your Grace”, “Your highness”, and “Your majesty” would be appropriate per Count/Duke/King/Emperor respectively. “Sir” was used for Knights only. (edit: woops, accidentally flipped the terms you and thou).

I don’t know Czech, but I’d be surprised if there weren’t specific language honorifics within it. We also don’t see Henry do a whole lot of medieval courtesies such as kneeling or bowing to nobility. When he does bow, it’s to a level that might have been considered a bit offensive at the time.

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#33

Can you, please, explain this in a bit more detail? What you’re saying is very interesting and I’m curious how a proper bow would look like and what exactly might have been considered offensive in his bows in the game.

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#34

In England or France, if you were presented to someone the level of a Count, or visited them after an absence, you would most definitely perform a bow and scrape, which typically involved some form of 45 degree lean of the body and a drawing back of the leg. If one was presented to a King or Emperor, one might be expected to kneel briefly. Styles of this varied in Europe, and I’m not entirely sure on the specifics of what it might be in Bohemia or the Holy Roman Empire during this time period. Giving a nod, which is what Henry commonly does, would probably be a bit too minimal for typical European courtesies given the social rank of the nobility he addresses.

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#35

Thank you very much! Can you, please, recommend some good reading on the subject?

#36

He’s not got much personality, has he, poor old 'Enry?

He’s quite a boring cunt.

#37

I found the book “Medieval Life: Manners, Custom, and Dress During the Middle Ages” by Paul Lacroix to be interesting and informative, though some might find it a bit overwhelming. Just checked on Amazon, and it’s $2.99 on Kindle.

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#38

A couple additional suggestions for reading:


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#39

Henry is kinda like Sir Radzig’s repo man lol.

#40

In the game mechanics, guards appear to be classified as lowborn

That’s what I meant. Sorry, I should’ve clarified further. Thank you for putting it into words for me though.

#41

kinda like a mafia made man.

I always kinda looked at nobility as the original Mafia.
They move in gain notoriety, get followers, use force to get their way and keep it then extort from those in their area of influence money and resources.
Knights= made men.

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#42

XIVMafia%20Small

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#43

Some were, some weren’t. The entire social construct had nearly everyone believing they were where they were because it was the will of God. It wasn’t necessarily the nobility keeping the peasantry down in order to keep their power secure and more along the lines of they, and the peasants, both believed they were where they were because it was meant to be.

A mafia boss would use terror and violence to keep people down and paying. Not every noble did this. In fact, many did not and those who did were looked down upon as bad lords by their peers.

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#44

Henry doesn’t need to be born from a noblewoman as a bastard to qualify as nobility. In the game he becomes a Squire, which is itself a title of lesser nobility, and should he ever be knighted there will be no questioning his title regardless of birth. The only thing as a bastard is that he is not a legitimate heir to his father, and thus his heraldry will be different.

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#45

thats the beauty of the game. the player can shape his character how they want. in my game he’s a player and awesome archer. he has several romps in his time off from looting and pillaging. he totally smashed lady stephanies back doors in

#46

You know, I’ve always kind of wondered why they went with the direction they did with the story of this game but didn’t follow through with it all the way.

You start the game as a son of a blacksmith (Why. Let’s be honest, a backstory as a member of an impoverished house of nobility would give you more options in game while still retaining the same “work your way back up” value) And I feel like you never really work your way up in society. I mean, you do, slightly, but I’m literally playing a game set in the early 15th century where I don’t get to be a knight or even have the option to do so. I wouldn’t even mind so much if they elaborated more that you were a squire and it was something that was readily acknowledged in the game and not just in passing.

I mean, am I the only one who’s irked about this? Warhorse, hire me on as a writer now please.

#47

I really don’t want to offend you but I hope they will not hire you :slight_smile: I am really not interested in clichés from medieval B,C,D movies.

#48

The point is having options Bernhardt. I generally don’t like forced narratives anyway, especially when it’s an RPG game. What’s so cliche about it? Being a Knight? Why is that cliche? The game focuses on this aspect of medieval life anyways to an extreme degree just without having you directly participate in it.

You’re going to sit here and tell me that the game isn’t already cliche telling the same archetypal story of a person who’s parents were killed coupled with a literal (I’m your father ) scene which was written so predictably that I smelled it hours upon hours before it happened?

No you’re right, that’s so cliche though that you would be knighted! They should make a game specifically for you where all you do is play a peasant and shovel cow shit at day. We can call it “Cliche avoidance: A realistic medieval game by Bernhardt.”

The only thing that offended me was such a gaping hole of intelligence such as yourself actually made that comment without realizing the entire game is cliche from a narrative point of view anyways.

#49

Am I the only one who’s Henry routinely gets addressed as sir Knight by shop keepers and pretty much everyone?

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