In a sense…according to what you’ve said, I think analog sticks might just be more realistic… A person won’t always walk in a perfectly straight line…nor aim with perfect precision.
Sure. Analogue sticks have a much more intuitive motion system, because it is based on determining an absolute velocity. The mouse is great, because it is based on determining an absolute position. The mouse would be absolutely horrible to use for movement in a first person action game, because it doesn’t allow you to intuitively change direction and speed.
I always use mouse in first person games to turn in the direction I want to go and push forward(W) and it was never horrible. On the other hand aiming with a controller is horrible, even with autoaim. And a lot of people want realistic archery and I think that can never be achieved with a controller.
FIMBUL: I think it’s PC gamers(including me) who would some bones now.
@TheLoreSeeker - I don’t think so, but I take your point. In reality you don’t have to think about walking in a straight line or at a set pace. Sure both might vary a little, but not by much and it’s certainly not something you have to think about.
Besides, you’re still looking and aiming with the mouse, so it’s not like some kind of advantage over reality (unlike the often ‘set by default’ auto-aim that a stick set up dictates). When it comes to control I think you want to make it as effortless and natural feeling as possible; anything that makes it harder (the simple act of moving and looking) is going to feel wrong as in reality these movements are completely natural and effortless. M&K produce better, more accurate results than a controller and thus feel more natural and, to me, closer to reality.
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Especially if they’ve spent a little too long at the local pub. 
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I was talking more about the analogue stick replacing our binary movement keys (WASD). The thought of replacing the mouse… is unsettling to say the least.
The only other options coming to my mind would be the steam-controller, where the problem is that touch elements lack precision, or the oculus rift, where the problem is that you can’t see anything else beside the game and again precision. It yet has to show if the minimal, involuntary movements of the head proof more disruptive than those of the hand.
@RGS I’m afraid we often forget that the natural feeling we connect with our input device of choice is not natural at all but the result of lots of training. We all started somewhat awkward, using the arrow keys and don’t tell me otherwise - nobody goes intuitively for the WASD keys! The mouse may be the most intuitive input device of all, but it takes some time to really master it.
Just a little excursion:
I see the palm grip with most unexperienced people, it’s horrible: Most movement comes from the wrist and in the worst case from the arm, no wonder a lot of people have problems with inflamed tendons.
I’ve never seen the claw grip before but it’s similar with the wrist movement. In my opinion the fingertip grip is the way to go: Most movement comes from the fingers, all five of them control the movement differently and make quick direction changes possible. Only for larger moves do you use the wrist, and the arm… no you never move the arm.
That’s because the thumb alone isn’t really precise. You’re holding the mouse with your whole hand, like a tool, a hammer for example. You hold the hammer with all the fingers of you hand so you can hit the spot you want to hit precisely. Now hold the hammer with thumb and index finger alone and try to hit something, that doesn’t work too well. And still these were two fingers.
Yeah, ‘fingertip grip’ here too :). I have a Logitech G9 mouse which along with different weight set-ups also has two shells to choose from, a large palm-type one and a smaller precision-type which I personally favour (http://www.trustedreviews.com/Logitech-G9-Laser-Mouse_Peripheral_review).
I actually have my mouse sensitivity dialed up pretty high; people often have difficulty when trying to navigate windows on my system ‘wow, it’s so sensitive!’ (luckily I have sensitivity buttons so just switch it down a notch for them ;))
I totally agree with your ‘we all had to learn’ sentiment. All I meant is that the K&M produce better more accurate results once mastered, beyond what a controller is mechanically capable of. Therefore in the translation from real world to virtual world the K&M setup feels more natural and realistic as it is actually a better and more capable system for accurately translating what you tell it to do.
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Yeah, I totally agree, plus the small ‘throw’ of a thumb-stick makes matters even worse. For fine control you’re trying to more a stick only a couple of mm.; the stick has 360 degrees of movement, a spring pushing it back to the centre and you’re trying to accurately control it with a thumb. On the other hand, exacting mm precision adjustments are easy with the mouse for all the reasons you mention.
I hate to agree, but it’s not like “PC gamers are smarter and console gamers are dumb.” On a pure knowledge base (of technology and ratio of hardcore gamers) then yes the PC market (with the exception of most MMO players, no offense meant, but if you play an MMO you know what I’m talking about) will normally have people that enjoy challenging games and consoles have more kids and sports fans/casual gamers. That being said I think there is a large outcry from ALL communities for more challenging games, because dumbing them down because the audience (and this phenomena seems to transcend boarders) has been getting dumber and dumber. The human brain needs a challenge and so when developers cave into not challenging their audience mentally (like when we spend 300 hours in TES clicking (even their puzzles look at the back of the claw and get the answer) I challenge my co-workers everyday mentally. At first they didn’t like it. It made them feel dumb, but now we ask each other riddles and we have a word of the day (a word which most people don’t know in our native language) I also work with an ex-math teacher and he’s always throwing math punches as me (one of my weak areas, though I got him back last friday). The moral of the story being if you challenge your audience they might be abrasive at first, but in the end they will enjoy it because it challenges them and helps their brain to develop.
So I close in saying I love PlayStation and Will always (until their RPGs suck 70% of the time)
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I Backed this game for a PC game mainly. but if they want to make a console port as well i’m fine with that but there’s just been too many games that just go straight for the console design first and the PC is the afterthought with the features missing which you would expect from a PC game and the User Interface design just doesn’t really suit with the keyboard / mouse way. as well as the controls just don’t feel to great because they just don’t spend the time to fine tune it.
if Warhorse does a good job with both of the a PC and Console version i think it would be a win - win but otherwise it wouldn’t be.
Ever played Resident Evil 4?
I can’t think of a game that’s been worse. It came over two years later to PC and they didn’t use the better looking GameCube version with better lighting and such, no, they gave PC gamers the PS2 version. Also, it seemed they just renamed the game’s folder on their developer PC from PS2 to PC because the only way you could play it was with controller or a bunch of keyboard keys only. There was absolutely no mouse support to be found. Via trial and error I had to figure out what keys do what because the on-screen display was showing controller buttons. Thanks. A little remedy was a mouse hack some Chinese guy made. But still you couldn’t aim pixel by pixel, it was more like a rough grid. For example, you tried to aim at the head. At this moment the laser pointer was right of it. Now you moved the mouse as little as possible to the left and voila, the laser pointer was left of the head. I think, this hack was just trying to emulate controller movement or a key stroke on the keyboard, it was everything but precise.
Here’s what I figured out (the numbers are not keyboard numbers!):
outside of QTE/button mash cutscenes:
1 = Sprint
2 = Ashley
3 = Fire
4 = ?
5 = Knife
6 = Weapon
1 = Cancel (in menu)
1+6 = Reload
QTE/button mash cutscenes:
1+3 -> simultaneously
3 -> tap
5+6 -> simultaneously
So, now you’re playing the game and the button “1” comes up. You have to think quickly: “Ok, (1) is ahem… Sprint which I’ve mapped to SHIFT, if I remember correctly. Let’s press SHIFT”. Reading this is easy but when you are suddenly in such a cutscene where you have to be quick to press the right button or else you will die, it’s no fun, even after you figured out the button layout and so on. I didn’t play Dark Souls but I can’t imagine that it’s worse than Resident Evil 4 when it was released for PC in Feb of 2007. Comparing these two games (you said Dark Souls wasn’t so bad after all), I think it’s save to say that RE4 takes the cake by far.
[quote=“Paul, post:102, topic:5944, full:true”]The funny thing is, there are so many people decrying “bad PC ports from consoles” […] I always found that a bit ridiculous.
[/quote]
If you were referring to me, I’m just stating my experience with horrible ports, so there’s a reason. No “decrying” just for the sake of it. Such games “earned” it!
[quote=“Wikipedia > Resident Evil 4”]
It was heavily criticized for no mouse support and frustrating keyboard controls, low-quality FMV cut scenes, choppy graphics rendering (lacks shadows and proper lighting) and requiring a gamepad controller for more precise aiming and gameplay.[/quote]
Ahem… No!
I’m using this grip and it’s the most relaxing for arm, wrist and hand. It’s very comfortable and I’m using it since I started playing on PC. I have a very low sensitivity in Counter-Strike (and every other game), a game where you have to be very quick and precise, and I hit where I want to hit, thanks to years of fine tuning. I’m quite good in this game. It’s definitely not a noob grip! Like I said in my previous comment, because the mouse rests firmly in my hand I have full control, the way it’s meant to be played. 
http://www.razerzone.com/mouseguide/ergonomic
Please see “Testimonials of pro-gamers”, there are more guys using palm grip than any other grip for FPS.
Obviously you took your picture from the razor site, so why didn’t you read the pros and cons? 
Never played any of the RE games. They’re def not up my street and mostly (from what I’ve seen) resemble what I think of a traditional console third person game to be (in terms of control etc.).
As to the mouse grip I think it’s all down to personal preference. As said I personally like a sensitive set-up though I remember most people saying that low sensitivity is better. That does make sense to me as you have a greater range of control, but after lots of experimentation I ended up where I am now ;).
Because I have my own view and didn’t care about what the academical elite of FPS pro-gamers thinks about anatomy and ergonomics? I just needed a picture of the different grips. 
My mouse has a very high dpi (unequals sensitivity, for the not so tech-savvy among us) and I use only small precise movements if possible.
And I also ams not so bad at playing ze games… if I may humbly add without evidence, so I guess we are at a draw.
But let’s not fight about grips, seems to be a matter of preference and training, like everything else. I admit I was extrapolating from myself to others. How ever you wield your mouse, it’ll take some time to become really good at it, no grip will change that.
I’ve been using the fingertip grip since I first started gaming (with palm stationary), but I also rapidly transition to claw and or even palm grip. It’s strange, but I never really noticed till I recorded my hand movement.
I have found that depending on the game and whether I was sniping, running, walking etc, etc, my hand grip would change. I saw it more so when I was playing competitively and find that it makes some sense; given that control and speed are to different things.
Funnily enough, I actually played and finished Resident Evil 4 on PC, the original Sourcenext version, a year ago!
You are right that yes, this is one of the very rare exceptions where the PC version is just as horrible, and in some aspects more horrible, than console version!
However, thanks to PC being amazing open platform, we are not beholden to developers only when it comes to our experience…
So I applied few usermade mods on my game, and had a grand time (the only thing still pissing me off was 30fps limit, which was just removed in new Steam version Capcom just released), even made couple videos of it:
Obviously, I have x360 controller and played it with that, like I play most of my games these days, so lack of mouse support did not bother me. Hey, console version did not support mouse either 
I am also here for a console Port
and I don´t know why the simple Question of the OP is blown out of proportion and a full fledged skirmish “PC vs. Console”-Jihad is on its way now…lead Plattform for Warhorse is the PC. So be happy and let the Consoleros be happy as well.
I’m glad the game will be ported to consoles, as long as it is this way and not the other way around. Most of the PC games ported from console versions have always had terrible controls for keyboard and mouse, with poor mouse sensitivity options, and, in most cases, without a (in-game) console (which makes tweaking a game much easier for some people).
If the game were properly designed for PC in terms of controls (oh, and performance-wise / optimised), and its console versions were well adapted, that would be just great.
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ScrollRim and Witcher/2 were designed for PC… and the UI and control methodologies were decidedly sub-par without serious modding and fiddling with FoV… I don’t imagine that any multi-platform release could ever reconcile the backward controller input vs KB+Mouse… There is always a compromise… which ends badly for the PC gamer…
Consoles are the enemy.
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I’m totally with PC 
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