@Devs NB: Combo tutorial needs rework ASAP, 1% have done 100 combos


#21

couldn’t agree more

the strike motion should have wobble/imperfections until you’ve gained experience. take TKD, judo, BJJ, fencing, etc. this is the way it is for all of them. this is what happens to some degree in KCD archery. needs to happen in KCD melee especially with combos


#22

i could see this working. maybe base the percentages off the enemies warfare level. 60% seems very high though. 60% would leave 40% occurrence for the remaining 5 longsword combos, plus option to clinch, or regular non chain stirke from any direction. It would really be up to for the Devs to playtest and figure out the exact numbers I suppose.

Using all the latin words today ha, do role play as priest ingame ha?? :wink::joy:

Naturally you are right, if it was a matter relation to the real world. In the real world all combos are chained strieks and visa versa. In KCD however there is a clear difference in gameplay terms. Chain strikes can be blocked normally, the last move in a combo cant be, combos have special annimations, chain strikes dont, the last move in a combo often targets an aera of the target which a swing form that direction may not normally ie last swing in false edge from DOWN L SLASH hits the enemy in the head, chain strikes also strike normally. Ergo chain strikes and combos are different. Combos are better.

@rataj, what I think you need is a decent tutorial and cooperative trainers/sparring partners to practice on (Bernard is too good at parrying IMO to be a good training partner). Even if you got that slow motion combat button, long term taking the need for quick reactions and speedy accurate mouse control out of the game would make the combat lose its bite, lose its tension, and long time remove the rewarding feeling of beating enemies in this game. As it would simply make the game too easy.

@Logist I agree as well, @frelmedieval suggested a similar idea above. Defiantly on board with your perk changes, even a perk which makes drawing your weapon faster or something would be great.

I never liked fighting games. this is the first game where Iv learned combos ever. I played MG: Rising and I don’t think i used many combos. I did remember just from play moves for tony hawk games THUG 1 THUG 2 and american wasteland, though those moves were learned just via practice.

HA, i love the combos, but we are allowed to disagree :wink:

But my god man, once you master the combs, you feel like a king/badass/coolest kid in town.


#23

Yep. Also, on certain level of mastery (or with certain perk, let’s name it “Combat reflexes” and put in general Warfare group, or, on the contrary, give such perk to every mellee class group) you could get possible combo variant with “combat star” ray/center, changing color to green. So, you land the strike which can be possible start of combo - and game shows you, how can you continue it. Just as it shows time for master strike/ideal block.

So, you still have to make the correct movement with the mouse - but it becomes a bit simpler. And for hardcore players all that change for being “user friendly” remain non-existant, so noone will cry about “git gud, casuls”.


#24

Thats actually a fantastic idea. They could leave it out of harcore mode as well. afterall henry should know the next move of the combo. It would represent Henry thinking where his next strike should. youd need two color directions, as Scarmaker and the 4 combo Wrist one both start with DOWN LEFT SLASH.

Im just thinking about some of your perk ideas, faster attacks better use of stamina already increase i battle as you level up. Via warfare and vitality. So the perks would have to be differnt, maybe they should be gudies for how to combo as you stated above.

Otherwise you would get unrealitic jumps in Hernys abilities between levels. As when you reach lv 12 or whatever and take the now your attacks are 20% perk there will be a huge comparative increase to the increase in attack speed between level 10 and 11. You could end up with a system where players feel gimped before they get a certain perk.


#25

Of course 60% is too much. The point is that behaviour is noticeable to the participant-observer


#26

Maybe some “focus” perk on certain weapon class could work. Like, for example sabres (ah, really underestimated weapon in KCD, which you won’t use outside of roleplay purpose) need some really specific skill of landing strikes and blocking, but if you master - you are really an uncomfortable opponent. It is proven by future (from KCD perspective) when in 16-17 centuries duelists from Western and Central Europe were meeting with colleagues from Eastern Europe, where sabres were pretty popular and existed own “school” of swordplay with that class of blades.

And is somewhere on the forum place for suggestions? Or we just land everything in existing subforums and rely on luck and wandering devs?


#27

beyond that, the ruffians should have a different skill set (different combos available and associated efficiency of each) than the professionals. this doesn’t seem to be the case

WH devs etc. read the forums. but, doubt any core change will be made to KCD no matter if how and where the suggestions are compiled.


#28

Well, I won’t name addition to currently existing combat UI “core change”. Just some user-friendly interface, something on the same level with how they changed the look of lockpicking.


#29

I really hope they see this thread, I think there is a lot of productive discussion here. Maybe for KCD 2?

Nevertheless for there first time out this is a fantastic game. I way prefare it over the witcher 3 but I really hate BS level scaling which is rampant in TW3 (dont attack things with red skull, constantly having to get better weapons to the point where swords from eary game may be made from cardbord etc I still enjoyed TW3 though).

I agree they wouldnt be changing how the combat works just modifying the UI, but god knows how much work that actually involves??? They are still making DLCs though so hopfully?


#30

Hope so.

One issue WH will have to grapple with is combat levels:
—Individual
—Squad
—Battle
In Bannerlord parlance, squad = formation and battle = tactics

Currently, KCD battles (esp at battle spawn points) seem like little more than a summation of a lot of individual fights. True the Cuman line up in baptism, but once the fur flies group cohesion seems to disappear. Hope that changes.

I would love for these combo techniques to be integrated/reconciled with the higher layers. Squads could have different expertise levels. Etc. Having this functionality would be sublime and worth AAA price without all the nuanced backstory.


#31

I tried to have an open mind about the combat system in the game. But after ~250 hours (80 in Normal mode, 170 in hardcore with a few mods, none of which change the mechanics of combat) I just do not like it. There are the elements of a very engaging system here but the overall effect is not effective. The fact the OP started with: that players who have “finished” the game are obviously just ignoring the combos is symptomatic of this.
The “lock on” is pure bullshit. I know what they are trying to do, it ain’t workin’ its just bullshit.
The leveling is ridiculous. You go from utter gimp to best combatant in the land in the span of a couple weeks. The way experience is gained is completely inconsistent and irregular.
Despite all this effort to create all this immersive, dynamic, developmentally engaging combat, it really just boils down to a couple factors: Have skills/levels that are enough that your opponent doesn’t auto-cock-block you, swig potions, smash keys = win.


#32

Still, if the combat must be compelling enough for you to play 250 hrs of the game??

Ye I wish leveling was slower, I really enjoy being under powered in games

Well you can combo as an alternative to smashing keys :wink:


#33

I have 160h in the Game and i’m on my second playthrough, but i never managed to make a Combo. I win my Fights so its not that much of a Problem but the Slow Motion Effects are destroying my Combat Time feeling and the Mouse controls make it difficult for me to Hit the exact dirction i want to hit. I will try the No Slow Motion mod and the Tipps i read in this Thread and go to Bernard for practice, maybe i’m getting at least one Combo out.


#34

agree. problem is don’t think WH has worked out collision mechanics especially of off strikes in great enough depth

The game has to be playable in a manner consistent with the narrative of the game. In that respect, the leveling is ok. The larger problem is the game itself. The game implicitly sets the expectation that Henry is an ass kicking fiend by the attack on Talmberg (if not Vranik or Pribyslavitz), and that can be achieved in 60h of playtime (ie, the time WH at least initially estimated was needed to complete the MQ).

Beyond the narrative consideration, I completely agree.

i struggle with the potions. on one hand, it’s a neat feature and has some basis in medieval life. on the other hand, i think potions are overpowered. marigold and the others should have a more noticeable delay between ingestion and impact.

regarding button/key smashing, i like the star in normal mode. it helps quite a bit to develop timing. melee fighting in KCD involves a lot more than the button/key smashing in FO4, Dragon Age, etc. that said, the jab and the other directional strikes never involve development/improvement. that’s what could use rework. might lose some players but it would add much more depth to melee combat


#35

I certainly have never done a combo at about 40% of the way through the game. (but I just realized using a long sword and shield pretty much makes you helpless at low levels) Maybe a practice post or manquin that gives no xp but does have the aiming star on it and two branches for arms and the Captain can demo the combo, explain why you use it, and then you start trying.


#36

Combos are not necessary but they sure as hell are fun and make combat feel more complete
However, the combat system in KCD is clunky as fuck. The already mentioned magnetism really fucks all combatants around including NPC’s and there are loads of glitches that break the flow of combat entirely for example how an NPC can tackle you if you are sprinting near them but not necessarily sprinting away from them.
what i think they should have done is made swords almost useless against armour without combos BUT if you pull off a combo you will actually really hurt your opponent. As it is now you can just button mash your opponent to death once you get the advantage, even on hardcore. You just need to be a decent level and there are a few perks that help too.


#37

Rather than repeating myself, a long post I just made which talks alot about combat and my experiences with it so far: Master Strike is OP, needs serious nerf for player and AI

The game is delightful, addictive, beautiful, beguiling, wondrous, meticulous, shockingly lovingly done, did I mention beguiling?, Jesus Christ be Praised, the MUSIC! :joy:, even combat “is fun” . . . but it is not Optimum, and it produces a lot of “mixed emotions”

The fact I can get stuck in with Captain Punching Bag with wooden short sword and shield, try to actually hit him with my sword and watch as he pulls some combo/master strike/awesome block/slow-mo-badassery, reaches over my shield, jabs me in the face, gives me a wedgy and chucks my chin with his smelly glove and I go wobbling backward aghast at the stench . . . and gain ZERO XP in anything (and moreover, THIS is how training combat with bernard basically goes: you try stuff, he cock blocks you, or worse, pulls some master-fu on you and you stand there wasting your time).

In contrast, If I want to min-max my way through training with the good captain, all I gotta do (with a version of Henry who is trained up from Cow-punching, flower picking, bunny hopping, and bandit kiting, i.e., high strength, reasonably high unarmed, Clinch Master and maybe one or two other perks): approach him close and fire off a combination of block (space for my remapped keys), advance (w) and punch/clinch (F) and maybe toss in a right mouse Button click (this seems to turn a simple clinch into a clench with pommel hit). Once I back him into the corner with these fancy moves, I can literally just keep spamming that same sequence interminably; the only factor weighing against grinding it to max level of Defense, Warfare, Sword and as much bonus to STR, AGI, VIT as possible is player endurance with repeated key strokes and grinding tedium.

All this to say: amazing system with much promise but badly in need of much polishing/tweaking.


#38

Personally, never been a fan of combos. Completed the game two times (normal and hardcore) using different melee weapons, just never wanted to use combos. They are a nightmare to perform. And when the situation is kill or be killed there is no need for showing off when a regular sword to the head works just fine.


#39

i have over 1k hours and all 999 hours were spent with out using a single combo. they are useless, when everyone figured out all you ever need to do is just master strike everything and every one. combos went out the window once i realized that.


#40

Well, may be combo is hard to use for most guys but I find it really over powered, I beat Runt with long sword knock down combo and hit his head once. Fight over…CG time…