From the Ashes DLC feedback

Gameplay
#279

Scaffolding can address most of the church issues. Tobias (mining engineer) and the Locator can certainly achieve that

Stone floor? to me, it’s more than a floor; it’s a foundation. The stone foundation is a considerable resource/time drain that is completely implausible within 3 day screen alert

Amish and others can erect a building in quick order without power tools. Problem is their barns, etc are poor equivalents to the clunky (whole log) medieval structures. Seems like it takes a hectare of trees to build a single medieval building (hyperbole)… medieval builders could’ve saved forests, time, etc had they learned how to mill and use what are colloquially referred to in US as 2 by 4s

1 Like
#280

Either does or doesn’t … it is not that easy. At first Warhorse has to decide if they want to put more money in FTA or save it for KCD2. Maybe customers will benefit more from money put in KCD2, who knows? Sometimes it is better for ALL sides to say just “Ok, this was not that sucessful, let it be and concentrate on something better”.

I can see so many ways to make FTA better, that would easilly swallow whole budget for next Warhorse game. It could be nice, but I can’t say that I want improved FTA more than KCD2.

#281

Good grief. The bathhouse wench is an NPC. She has most of the ‘home’ services options available. Copy one of them, relabel and plop in Pribyslavitz. That’s not a budget killer. If her dialog tree can’t be amended without screwing up the world, add cobbler and tailor NPCs, strip out their inventory, and give them no money. Again, this isn’t a budget killer or mission creep. To suggest that doing the above or changing a non-functioning water trough into a functional one is going to prevent or harm WH’s budget or product vision is quite frankly absurd

The framework for attack is already set and established in 3 towns. Replicating that in a 4th won’t break the bank.

1 Like
#282

Do it, and people will again complain that it was too little change and that they want house decorations and bandit attacks and walls and castle and more decissions and more interactivity … Really, “the building of a medieval village” could be a game on its own. I would like to play it, it could be fun. But I don’t want it instead of KCD2.

1 Like
#283

You’re wrong. There’s a poll here in the WH forum that proves the home services are desired.

For the scope of things actually mentioned, the idea of opportunity cost relative to KCD2 is foolish and wrong headed.

Customers remember things. They remember targets the vendors set and missed on, and they consider those misses when making future purchases.

Kickstarter targeted:
—warhorses
—dungeons
—large battles
—sandbox
KCD missed on all 4

FtA/ashes targeted:
—home
—financial mgmt system
FtA missed on the former, and partially succeeded on the latter. (Weir was mentioned by Locator and could therefore be considered a miss.)

Before moving on to KCD2, WH might consider making good on some of their own targets

2 Likes
#284

Oh that selectivity … kickstarter also targeted on good story and historical realism and believable living world and realistic combat system … Did you already forget?

And I am also sure that Warhorse should hire you as producer. You would clearly decide better where to invest money and time. I can’t see why they are waiting.

As for customers not buying next games because of FTA … well, you have your prediction model, they have theirs. Only future will show which one was better. I would bet that one not-so-successful DLC will not destroy whole reputation that Warhorse acquired.

#285

I’m citing things that WH explicitly mentioned as targets in their own Kickstarter video. So any selectivity is a function of WH’s own Kickstarter selling points

Replicating a few NPCs isn’t a program altering decision. Converting a water trough isn’t either. Again, you’ve lost all sense of proportionality in your argument.

The core of KCD is excellent. It has overcome some but not all of the misses. That said, for a vendor to repeatedly and publicly promote targets that cannot be obtained isn’t the most effective leadership irrespective of industry.

I’m familiar with the SDLC that tends to keep patients from dying or suffering permanent harm by interceding when there are shitty software change controls and procedures in evidence. WH and its QA could learn a thing or 2 from that paradigm.

1 Like
#286

Oh yeah, in whole kickstarter video, there were surely only those 4 goals that you cited. Neither a word of anything else.

#287

Spin it whatever way you want. A miss is a miss. WH set those targets and missed on them.

Todd talked about a griefer and other mechanisms for FO76 at QuakeCon. If the go live version and the post production versions of FO76 never implement those mechanisms, they will be missed targets and I hope FO consumers remember and call them it on it… as console esp PS4 users did when Bethesda dragged its feet on implementing FO4 mods (console mods were floated by Todd at E3).

If WH continues to promote targets that it misses, it’ll eventually influence consumer behaviour. It doesn’t matter game studio abc or SaaS vendor xyz

1 Like
#288

It’s not about destroying a whole reputation. It’s about listening and responding to customer feedback when it’s cost effective and provides value. Relative to the FtA feedback that you replied to, the cost effectiveness is in replicating what already largely exists, and the value is in evidence in the votes expressed in the ashes poll and words expressed in a number of ashes related forum topics. Responding to customer feedback when it’s cost effective and provides quality instills consumer loyalty. certainly the margins for KCD and its DLC aren’t so great that that loyalty is of little to no interest to WH

#289

Exactly what i was trying to say with my comparsions but yes Mr. DYNAMO, i am doing here comparsion of simple game mechanics. How detailed can be that dlc if you all trying to improve it! icon_laughing ay

#290

That is why I talked about selectivity. 4 targets missed is success if your list has 20 targets, but failure if it has only 4 targets.

As for responding to feedback - just leave it on Warhorse production department, will you? They know better what is cost efficient, because they see both sides of the coin, while you only see one. They can also do a bad decission, but as for myself I still don’t have feeling that Warhorse doesn’t response to feedback. And I am really far from being angry because of it.

#291

The Kickstarter vid doesn’t have 20 cut scenes with corresponding target labels.

What kind of passive aggressive nonsense is that? I provide feedback positive and negative. (Want evidence? Run the user report by quarter and year and look at the names at the top) I try to be respectful and candid. Have done so since release. WH can take it or leave it.

None of that changes your baseless assertion about opportunity costs suffered by adding an NPC or converting a dirty water trough into a functional one. KCD2 won’t get cancelled or delayed because Prokop adds a bathhouse wench NPC to Pribyslavitz and converts a water trough.

It’s not about a bad decision or being angry. You’re small minded for saying so. It’s about quality, making good on goals that you as a vendor set, and listening to customer feedback.

Want a timely example regarding the impact of customer feedback? Take the patch notes for v1.6.3/1.10 on PS4. Without customer feedback here and elsewhere, WH wouldn’t have improved its change mgmt processes. The added detail with regard to the impact of 1.6 and WH plans going forward wouldn’t have been included.

1 Like
#292

Yes, nobody only WH or others knows how much resources, time and effort a game costs icon_rolleyes

Maybe because you like evrything to fast!

#293

The very first title about game features I see is “Enter the vast, living, medieval world”. But yes, if you pick your titles carefully, you will get those 4 that were not implemented perfectly. That is what I call selectivity.

If you say “I would like a game to look more like this and this”, it is helpful feedback. If you say: “the WH either cares about customer feedback or it doesn’t. … If it doesn’t, WH is no different than EA, Bethesda, etc.”, then you are judging Warhorse based on your narrow view of problems.

I have no problems with thread that say what they find good and bad on DLC. I did it too. I have problems with threads that say “they are lazy and only gather money for nothing, because they don’t give me what I want”. Warhorse decided to create only small DLCs based on what they already prepared for main game but had to remove in order to finish game in time. It was their bussiness decission, based on not only what players want, but also on how much manpower they have, how much time, how much money, what are the future plans etc. I will not blame them for it, because I liked the DLC, although I also see many things that I would like to be better or different.

#294

They weren’t implemented at all

Now I’m judging by the same criteria clients use to assess vendors. Either you care about the feedback or you don’t. It’s a simple, generalizable business model. SaaS vendors live and die by it nowadays. It doesn’t mean you cave to their every need. It means you triage it and then implement if it meets criterita.

How many FTEs does it take to replicate an NPC and convert a water trough? How many to QA?

You do realize that the grindstone at the armorsmith was added because precisely the same feedback.

Cite the forum post where I indicated such

#295

Oh yeah.
Warhorses - I just spent half a game on one and fought from one.
Dungeons - big Skalitz mines are a lot dungeon-like. And in video it was more a part of jokingly playful slogan than anything else
Large battles - Pribyslavitz and Vranik are larger-scaled battle. Not as large as we hoped for, working a bit differently than we hoped for, but larger all the same.
Sandbox - everybody expects something different from this. You can offer some feature, and somebody will always tell you that it is not sandboxy enough.

Either care for feedback or don’t … like how do you expect it? If I give feedback “I would like DLC larger and for free” and they don’t give it to me, they they don’t listen? Many people wanted building and a home, so they listened and created FTA in a way that was possible for them in that time. And you accuse them for not listening, because it did not meet your expectations. It is OK, you can’t always hit everone’s tastes, but it is not because of “not listening”

1 Like
#296

Daniel says warhorses were pulled cause they could implement the tech per his liking. So nope.

A mine isn’t a dungeon

Large battles - medieval battles in the Holy Roman Empire numbered hundreds if not thousands. Petr don’t be disingenuous in saying the Vranik and Pribyslavitz battles resemble them or the vid shown in the Kickstarter video

Tobi said ashes wasn’t a sandbox

A home is a place where people bathe, put out their clothing, launder their clothes, mend their clothes and fix their footwear. This isn’t my idiosyncratic definition of a home. It’s one I’ve seen in homes in S America, N America, Europe, Asia and Australia. Haven’t been to Africa but have heard they do likewise there

#297

OK, enough on that, I also have to work sometimes. Give feedback, but don’t demand, that is what I wanted to say. And it is good to respect that bussiness decissions of developer are far more difficult than your thinking of “what could be done better”. Feedback is not the only thing that has to be taken in account.

#298

Do you know Agile software development? If you do, you know it all starts with a user story. That is precisely what I presented to you as features of a home and you ignorantly take or insinuate it to be a demand

I do have an idea about the complexity of business decisions involved in working as a software vendor/client whose deliverable sustains or improves life and harms or kills it if the software doesn’t work well or is implemented in poor/incomplete manner. No matter how shitty popins are KCD, they’ll never kill you or your loved ones.

1 Like
© 2015 Warhorse Studios www.warhorsestudios.cz