Skills developing

Gameplay
#1

Skills

Another thread I have felt is missing. There is a lot of people discussing skills and their developing in other threads.

There is a great thread in Meta (Here) talking about new solutions for old problems. One of the topics in the discussion there is minimizing number of numbers :smile:. Meaning that numbers, tables and scales can have an impact on immersion.

What I imagine as an ideal system is some kind of invisible fluent skill development. It would be there, but it would not bother you at all, so that you can focus on whatever you are doing. Instead of watching a number called sword skill grow, you would see the animations of your character getting smoother and your strikes getting more hefty. And instead of waiting for levelup to make yourself better with a spear, you would just go somewhere and train with a spear.

Of course there needs to be some connection to the player and an option to choose. For this could serve a perk system. You would go find a skilled fighter willing to teach you, who would tell you whether or not are you ready to learn something new. Then you would choose between a few perks giving you an advantage according to your fighting style.

Even though I was talking mainly about weapon skills, it is IMHO applicable on any other skill there would be.

What do you guys think?

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Skill progression
What do you want to see in Kingdom Come: Deliverance?
#2

Really like this.

Perk system not so much, how would that work?
Oh I got a perk on my Heavy Armor so now I don’t take as much dammage no matter that everything else is exactly the same, same strike, same forces, same armor thickness, same amount of padding it is just that I have this perk that halves my dammage recieved.

Having this in a game that is very much about realism makes one sound like a twat!

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#3

It was really just a stream of conscience. I was thinking about fighting techniques. Like, after some practise with sword or an axe, you would visit a trainer and he would teach you a new move. Meaning there are no moments of ‘‘you just learned a roundhouse kick, press alt+F4 to perform a roundhouse kick’’ you know? I am not sure if everybody would like that the option to choose something on his own would completely disappear. How else would you let the player influence his character’s development?

Also speaking of armor skills, I am not sure whether there should be a skill for wearing armor. Just put it on, that’s it, no limitations. MHO.

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#4

as long as we don’t do what skyrim did with carryweight I’ll be happy. Carryweight was only affected by Stamina which was mainly on warriors. I know theres not going to be mages, but having the minimal carryweight by the end of the game on my archer was annoying to say the least.

#5

I dont have a problem with a leveling system where the more you do something the better you get. I do have a problem with the idea of skill levels were one minute you cant do something there’s this level up and then you can like the skills you unlock in skyrim. But, I do think that you should get better by doing the action and not some nonsensical xp system.

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#7

There are several ways of approaching this.

It depends how many parameters are defined as skills.

If there are only a few the gradual skill increase makes sense, commensurate with the characters actions.

If there are a lot, perhaps a point system where you can allocate experience points to fine tune the characters abilities?

Balla. :0/

#8

Firstly I would like to stop for a moment and apreciate this joke. Briliant.

Next.[quote=“Klogg, post:3, topic:2250”]
visit a trainer
[/quote]
This reminds me too much of MMORPGs. “Hey trainer I have some money now give me some skill” I know that you did not mean it like that but still I just kind of dislike idea of trainers.

As for armour skill it believe that you have to know how to wear it and how to move in it, so it does not strike me as irelevant. But sure you should not be limited to what armour you can wear.

#9

I like the idea of progressing each skill only while using that particular skill. Much better than to simply assign skill points each level up. Also I like very much the idea of having those skillbars invisible to the player
much less munchkinism that way I think.
The Wow! moments described by @Klogg above would be still possible to experience, because the leveling curve for each skill could still contain “milestones” which would unlock some special abilities, just that the player wouldn’t know when to expect such a moment! It would also be cool to have Henry comment on it, have a special voiceover for each milestone. All in all I think it would bring even more immersion and also replay value :slight_smile:

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#10

I’m all for advancing the skill only if practicing/getting used to it (ie heavy armor, once you fight in it enough you can move better and it becomes easier etc).

#11

Yes. All of my yes! It would be great if there is no effort on our part to pick and choose skills- rather, just get better at them as we go, in a way that is tangible and easily noticed. Assigning numbers to skills is very tedious. Humans aren’t robots, so our characters shouldn’t be either. We shouldn’t be able to ‘forget’ skills honed after months and years (respecs)
and assign random experience to something we never did (AP,SP).

(Edit: I’m all for Trainers to teach us the basics of new skills
the rest we should do ourselves.)

The strategy aspect should be in the actual combat, not in our skill tree imo.

#12

Great ideas @Klogg. I believe Dan said some stuff about how skills would be improved by doing them not by an overall level system. I hope they also try to make the system as transparent as possible like you were saying.

#13

i believe trainers will be vital to how combat skills are developed in this game. it makes sense, doesn’t it? you’ll want to train and learn new moves, improve your reflex and handling, and perform trial and error in a safe environment with mock wooden weapons rather than when you do actually come across bandits and have to defend yourself, only to realize you lack the training to properly do so.

still i wonder how the game will calculate this. maybe successful hits/parries/blocks on the trainer will improve the efficiency and handling of the weapon.

#14

Well ofcourse it does make sense and I think thats the only way, more over realistic one. It would just help to call them somewhat else. Word “trainer” evokes in me feeling of World of warcraft and other MMORPGs.

#15

I’d prefer a mix of learning by doing and having the option to search for masters to learn special things. For example:

You know how to swing the smith hammer but you aren’t knowing how to make steel. A master smith could teach you for a big amount of money (just a example)

A knight could teach you how to fight in general (posture, tactics and so on) which could affect your stamina for attacks and how quickly you could react with your attacks and parries.

A hunter would be able to teach you how to skin a animal properly which would get you a skin of better quality

The other important point would be
 “Is the main character able to read, write and count coins?” If yes he could also be teached by books and could better trade with merchants. But I quite don’t know much about the character :smiley:

On the other hand the combat will be very realistic which means everyone of us (at least myself :D) has a little bit to learn when to perform an attack and when to block. Fencing in that age has been very complex and it is hard to learn. For more than five years I have been looking for a school for swordsplay to be able to roleplay fights better and it looked amazing complex.

#16

Imagine if he did not know how to count. There would be no number to describe te cost of things but for example number of cows because you would know how much cow is worth.

#17

I would be intrigued by removing numbers or progression bars from skill development, but I would be surprised if this actually happens given the trend in gaming and life as a whole of being able to track every little thing. With that said, of all studios, maybe Warhorse would be the one to buck that trend.

I think it would be really cool if they had ranks/titles in different skill areas. You would progress through these by using the skills, but in order to earn the next title there would have to be an event/learning experience associated with it.

For example, I have been spending a lot of time hunting with my bow. The next time I am in town, I get message that somebody has taken notice and would like to speak with me. I would go see this person and have to complete some sort of challenge to acquire the next title in my archery skill.

Their are ways that Warhorse could tie in the learning of new techniques or abilities through this process. I think this would be more authentic as to the way things are/were learned and take the focus off of numbers.

#18

i’d be really happy if they did buck the trend for truly seemless and invisible skill progression. but i think people are so used to rpg stat pages, they’ll probably complain en mass and it’ll get patched in.

#19

I would take your idea a step further: If you’re not good at hunting, the local hunter might give you advices and goes hunting with you. This is like a tutorial when you obviously need it. This will just teach you the basics, no special skills at all.

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