Every situation we present you with when you have a fire arm and you’re faced with a gunman your answer is A do nothing or B lay down and die. I personally would not want sit there and watch as an innocent man is shot to death on the pavement when i know i have a chance of stopping it.
After seeing the word Hentai i quickly got the fuck out there not sure how that was related to a .44 but alright…
Because after watching all those floppy squirrel penises you need the .44 to wipe your memory clean.
I’ve seen the footage yes and as far as I could tell they were on the roof and the camera is zoomed in slightly .
I would doubt you would get a single round on target . It’s much harder to shoot downswards as the round will generally hit higher then where you aim .
Also as we established before they were wearing body armour so you would of done very little apart from
Putting yourself in unnessery danger .
Street fighting with 2 guys that are armed with assault rifles is extremely stupid .
If you have a valid Chance to stop the bloodshed then go for it but in this instance you’re just endangering more lives
Well, he is right, in general. Avoid, de-escalate, evade, escape. These are the main rules of armed self-defense, or to be more exact, avoiding the necessity of armed defense.
However, there are situations when following these rules is hard to justify. Active shooter situation is one of them, especially in situation when the police are not there to engage him yet.
If you have your loved ones with you, then evade with them, that is the top priority. If you decide to stand down, then fine, no-one can blame you. But then you will live till the rest of your days knowing that you might have been able to stop the gunman in the middle of his attack, possibly saving quite a few people. This will be very probably the last thought of your evening and first one of your morning for the rest of your life.
In this rampage
A civilian had the shooter in cross-hairs of his rifle, up from his window. He didn’t take the shot, and he has to live with it.
I’m afraid it’s a situation of risk v rewards . If you engage from your position to save one life but by doing so you’re endangering 20 lives then you have to take that into consideration and when its a position that is going to be a very hard shot to take effectively then I would advise not doing it .
Move position and try to engage or just stay put .
I could be wrong here but wasn’t that officer in the video armed with a pistol . I can’t remember if they were an unarmed patrol or the first armed one on scene
I don’t agree. If you are in a position that is hard to reach for the perp (window above the street) and you have solid walls (no wood) then by engaging the perpetrator, you force him to shift his focus from killing civilians to taking care of you (next to impossible since you are not on his level), or taking cover, or moving elsewhere, anyways, that is 2-3 minutes of time not spent killing, and time given to the authorities to show up with proper weapons.
I believe he was one of the first three unarmed cops that were sent to engage active shooter in office marked for protection against terrorist attack. The other two go away, he was less lucky.
This isn’t the rooftop around the offices, this is further away from the place, already on their way out of the city. It really is first or second floor window on a rather narrow street.
That is not my experience with my CZ 75. But yeah, I would be much less likely successful with, let’s say, Kahr CM9, my other carry gun.
They didn’t have proper warzone body armor. Most of standard body armor covers front and rear, with side being less covered. But with 4-8 rounds at target (let’s say you 1-2 didn’t hit), those are at least broken ribs, even if all lands at the vest and none at neck/arm/head/leg.
That is where the window makes a difference. You have (1) surprise and (2) immediate cover. They may have assault rifles but they don’t have either of that, which makes at least one of them quite a fair game for you.
They will need about 1 second to realize that they are under fire and 1-2 seconds to locate your exact window. For me, that is about the time I empty a mag. With up to 16 rounds down their way my hands would have to tremble as a fuck not to hit them. Which may very well be the case in such a situation, but still, even if you hit nothing, you give 2-3 minutes to civilians to get the hell out and authorities to unleash the hell on them, as I wrote above.
I was mainly talking about the Charlie Hebo incident when he pretty much told us he wouldn’t even try to save his own life if he was there armed with a pistol. Pretty much every situation we’ve talked about in this thread where you have to defend your life has been do or die. Almost every time hes said he wouldn’t defend his own life. But yes i agree if you can walk away always do so. But in the situation above it seems the options are try to take out the gunmen or watch a guy get murdered on the street.
i would defend myself where its possible . street fighting so say 15- 50 metres with a pistol is just plain right stupid in the real world . real combat is alot different from shooting targets at a range .
i think you and @snejdarek like to play hero in your heads about these situations but i would suspect that in real life you wouldnt act in such a way .
you wouldnt hit a god damn thing with a pistol . which is my point . its useless . its a lovely thought , yes you may bide time but i doubt it these men were trained .
the most likely out come would be you missing every single shot . the two men would of reacted in a number of way .
there is a huge difference between engaging a live target that thinks and reacts to what you do on a weekend down the range .
this is where i take huge issue with people such as you @SirWarriant , @snejdarek . you enjoy shootings guns , i dont blame you so do i . im sure you are both decent if not brilliant shots , but you go from shooting some targets to rambo that is going to kill 2 much heavier armed men with a pistol .
in the real world of using guns for their actual role of killing a pistol is generally seen as a last resort in a face to face situation or room clearing , out side of room to room / close quarter fighting a pistol is seen a useless . engaging 2 men with assault rifles with a pistol is suicide its not even up for discussion quite frankly .
the adrenaline will have you buzzing making you less accurate . you’re going to empty you weapon in under 3 seconds leaving you out of the game so you have disrupted them for all but 10 seconds before they then burst into your building and kill you and everyone else .
if you had said an SBR i would say go for it you could take them . but with a pistol ? really ? honestly you would engage two heavily armed men who are moving with a 9mm pistol from a heightened position about 10-15 metres distance ? you would be doing NO ONE any favours playing hero . far better to get everyone on the ground away from the windows .
the officer is dead if you engage or not
FULL VIDEO
gunmen are near enough running and you’re can seriously say you would land a single shot on target
also they’re on the roof from what it seems with the wall around the edge visible
might take a second read to pick up on it hahaha
Is that a reference to the marines throwing a puppy off a cliff? (got the joke though entertaining)
I never claimed i could but @snejdarek seemed confident enough in his weapon skill so if it were him up there i would say go for it. I really don’t shoot much the last time i shot was around 5 months ago. @snejdarek seems like he practices a lot with his gun though.
Well if i were up there and had say an ar-15 in my home i would go for it. Im not certainly not a good enough shot to pull something like that off with a pistol but im sure i could hit them with a rifle.
I would also like to add that i didn’t know how fast things happened. Before i watched that video i thought that they were standing over the man for a decent amount of time.
Yup. That is why my point of departure was “if I were home alone”. I surely wouldn’t attract them if there was anyone else with me.
I never said that. I said that I would be able to shoot and probably shoot and wound one of the perpetrators, before ducking away from the fire of the other one. That is no rambo shit, that is common decency in situation when two heavily armed fuckers run rampant around killing people.
I will admit that sometimes, I don’t have a spare magazine on me. But frankly, I don’t remember when was the last time I didn’t have one. Must have been last summer when carrying a gun in shorts seemed enough bother, but frankly, I am not sure if I really left the second mag home. But I get your point.
It would be fucking bad situation for me, but it would be no piece of cake for them either.
My answer is - I only hope I would have enough courage to do it. Otherwise, my mind is clear that this is what I would do.
They killed the officer because they had nothing else to do, no-one to stop them. He was out of the game anyway. The chances are they would leave him and go either after me or out of line of (my) fire. Maybe it would change nothing. But not trying and leaving the man to be murdered is much worse than trying and failing.
The shooting in Slovakia I posted earlier - a civilian could take the guy down. He didn’t and the shooter proceeded and murdered at least one other person, shot widely in windows (including kindergarten) and then shot engaging police officer (who had only pistol) to head (he survived). Different people may draw different conclusions from it, but my conclusion is that he should have taken the shot.
Look at 0:23. It is edge of window. You can clearly see also the flowers on the outer edge of window and a wall then.
I am positive.
Yes, I agree. I started doing the rapid fire drills after the Paris attacks exactly because of how underpowered pistol rounds are compared to rifle, and because I commute with metro - that would be quite possibly the primary terror attack in my country (all Jewish institutions have armed guards and quite probably many Jews are armed themselves, so they are anything but soft target in my country).
I gave it a bit of training and quite some thought. My mind is clear in that if armed, I would not end up with a bullet in my back, and I would do my best not to end up shot from front either. What are the chances of success is something I really, really do hope I will never have to find out.
Yes, in general, I agree with you. I also suppose you had 96% of training with rifle and 3% with pistol and then a bit of time with large toys.
I did a bit of rifle shooting in my teens. I shot AR 15 once. Now I have a bit of experience with the Scorpion, but only stationary shooting on stable target.
Meanwhile I shot 200-500 rounds through my pistol every month of the past year. I am still far from satisfied with my pistol skills, but I hope to get there in a year or so, and then move to SBR, then shotgun, then sniper rifle. But for now pistol is what I know and what I can use well. That is also why the distance is important factor for me when I say that engagement with pistol - as in the picture - is what I would do, despite its clear drawbacks against the AKs.
you wouldnt of landed a single round on them i would put money on you missing every shot .
[quote=“snejdarek, post:1360, topic:21032”]
It would be fucking bad situation for me, but it would be no piece of cake for them either.
[/quote] i doubt you would of even bothered them to be honest
they would not have shot you as they said later on at the printing firm that they were not there to kill civilians. but clearly we wouldnt of known that at the particular scene we are discussing
[quote=“snejdarek, post:1360, topic:21032”]
I am positive.
[/quote] i am positive you wouldnt . i could hit a moving cardboard target at 30 metres with a pistol all day long , but in a combat situation i would doubt it and certainly wouldnt take the risk .
if they burst into the room and you have a pistol . all day long providing you are close enough .
I cant speak for the Czech republic but in the U.S there are plenty of people that do long range pistol shooting way past 15-20 meters.
This people are nailing targets at 135 yards or 135 meters. If they can do that they can certainly hit a target at 15-20 meters.
As for moving targets you can check out the long range pistol hunting where they shoot moving targets and extreme rang with pistols.
yea i could hit a target from there (maybe not the full 123 metres but close ) with no pressure what so ever , but now do that in a situation where you’re in fear of your life , the target is running and you’re shaking and i would put everything i own on you not pulling off the shot .
also you’re shooting in a down wards direction so your round is not going to hit where you’re aiming .
certainly not impossible but extremely unlikely , more chance winning the lottery
huge differences between shooting on a range and shooting in a real life situation , much like when people learn martial arts , they can do it to perfection in the gym every time . now try it to a unpredictable target or individual and suddenly the entire bull game changes
also get them to do the same thing on a human shaped target that moves left to right and even in range conditions they wouldnt pull it off .
How do you know? These people train with their weapons a lot so im almost certain they could take out an attacker at that range. Many of them are also hunters who can hit moving targets.
I would suspect they couldn’t hunting is no comparison to the pressure when your life depends on you making the shot . They would not hit a god damn thing . Epically if that attacker is armed with an AK47 . You know damn well I’m right you’re just arguing for the sake of it now 
Just look at the time they needed to pull the shot off on a large non moving target , that luxury isn’t there in a combat situation where the guy is running in between Parked cars etc and you would be shaking through the fear of it all as some bloke in a office that goes to a range once a week would not have ever expirenced a real life situation . Plus on top of that you would have the added mental pressure of possibly killing someone .
And even in hunting I would like to see them pull it off on a deer running
Lol I smell a thread that gonna get closed soon. @TheDivineInfidel @SirWarriant @snejdarek
What weapons do you legally possess in real life? Do you wander armed?
