I think it is great that he did that.
I just wish he would recognize that “Battle of nations” is a sport. A sport that just like modern fencing got rather little to do with the real thing.
The “fight books” clearly tell us how you take down a man in armor… and that is all forbidden in the sport. For very good reasons. But this totally remove the realism from the sport…
Did he said that battle of nation style combat is historically accurate?
I am seriously asking, I don’t know.
He never said it directly.
But a number of times(in other clips) he have mentioned “Battle of nations” as something they use to help get the combat “right”.
So I do get impression that BoN is seen as “realistic” buy him and the devteam.
(I sure hope Iam wrong)
You are obviously wrong. They have professional fencers from http://www.drcbrno.cz/ who provide consultations about realistic combat, they are the ones who do motion capture and their boss wrote on facebook how they did the fencing - no influence of BotN techniques at all. From what I understand, Dan speaks about his experience on BotN mainly because it’s interesting and it tought them some practical things like how hard is breathing in helmet and armor, how exhausting it is, what it feels like when you are hit in the armor etc… These are things he always mentions when he speaks about it, and these are actually relevant and realistic information. I haven’t heard him to say even once that they are implementing actual combat techniques from BotN.
I vaguely recall seeing a few bits of him getting suited up but no actual fighting.
@TobiTobsen is there anywhere we can see Dan all suited during his BOTN experience?
I really don’t think it is that obvious. For one think the combat system have you making slashing attack against armor all the time…
In proper armour you do not get tired after 30 seconds of fighting. The effect of a BoN longsword on armour is not realistic since their swords are way too heavy, no stabbing attacks is allowed… and the list goes on.
I sure hope you are correct at it don’t have any influence but If I can get the impression that it do, then surly others can get that impression also…
This complaint doesn’t make any sense. It’s your choice if you want to use slash attacks against armor…And it has barely any effect. If the game is supposed to be realistic, you need to be able to use all kinds of attacks against all types of armors and it’s up to you which ones you choose. Slash attacks are effective when someone doesn’t have armor, and it is not effective when someone has armor. I don’t get how you imagine it should be, why should the game not allow you to do ineffective attacks? Why should your possible attacks change based on what armor oponent is using? It doesn’t make any sense and it is against realism.
This complaint is wrong for two reasons. Firstly, it is completely possible for untrained person to get tired after 30 seconds of fight without an armor. And even without a weapon, lol. Secondly, it is a game mechanic important for gameplay. The point is to make you think about your moves, and to make combat harder and more complex. What would be the point of stamina if you could fight for 3 minutes before you had lack of it? That game mechanic would be worthless, because the fight would be always already over.
Considering that their conclusion was that it is hardly noticable when you get hit to the armor, lighter sword wouldn’t change that…
There is already stabbing in the game, so I really don’t get why you are speaking about this rule of BotN.
Sure, people can get various impressions. It is important those impressions are based on reality though.
The request was for video, and this picture got posted a few posts up 
.
First, Battle of nations style of fighting is actually somewhat close to medieval foot tournament discipline fighting. And so are BoN armour, weapons (blunt, heavy) and the corresponding techniques (mostly wrestling as the goal is to take the opponent to the ground). However, nothing could be more detached from real civil (street) duels with longswords or fighting in battles. Good battle-ready full plate was light as it needed to provide balance between protection and mobility, hence did not affect stamina too much (unlike tournament armour). The longsword was also very light (between 1.3 and 1.7 kg, if you ever hold one, you will understand that hitting something else than the head, cutting the neck or bruising a joint makes no sense), so impact of its blade (its weak) on the plate protection was minimal, including virtually no effect on stamina of the opponent.
Second, slashing attacks against full plate armour in the current Alpha build are still reasonably effective, which should be removed entirely or limited to minimum, perhaps only good slashes into the helmet should somewhat affect stamina.
Third, the guys who instructed WH and did the mo-capturing ARE NO HISTORICAL FENCERS. They are stage-fencers, they say it explicitly on their website. Look at photos on their websites (they don’t even use historically accurate longswords - those are hard to get in the Czech Republic btw.) or the bits in older KCD video updates, the techniques captured are purely stage fencing, including all the special moves that are already implemented in the game, such as pommel strikes, halfswording, dragging etc.
Albeit huge fan of this game myself, I am actually a bit disappointed. If you undergo so much pain and attention to get historically accurate chickens or composition of the forests, why give up on recreating an accurate 15th century combat when it is the major feat of the game…
That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be able to do that, otherwise it would took decisions from a player, who now has to decide how he is gonna fight against what armor. Or what’s your point here? I honestly don’t know.
Hmm, I don’t think so. Firstly, I would argue that being hit in any armor can potentialy affect you somehow. Saying that you never ever can be affected by a hit to your plate armor is a stretch. Secondly, it doesn’t really matter, especially because losing stamina after being hit makes sense, although it is more significant in the game than it most likely would be in reality. It is a reasonable game mechanic, and that’s what it is about in the end. It’s not supposed to be 110% fencing simulator, it is supposed to be a game. I’m sure everything is subject to change and can be tweaked one way or another, but this is like the smallest issue that is hardly even unrealistic.
This is not true, they do all kinds of stuff. They do historical fencing, they do stage fencing, they do theater, self defense, proffesional lectures and more. That’s actually explicitly said on their website, I don’t get why you make shit up, I can read czech.
I don’t get how photos on their websites are relevant for what they do for Warhorse. It is possible to know more things than one and it is possible to teach stage fencing and also historical fencing. Considering that they make a living doing this kind of stuff, I would argue it’s pretty obvious they are gonna do stage fencing more, as it is more atractive for audience, which means more lucrative. That doesn’t mean they don’t know what proper fencing looks like. I’m not sure what captured techniques in KCD video updates you are talking about, I hope you don’t mean those few seconds of mo-caping, because you would have to be some kind of oracle to tell anything from it. Beside of that, mo-caping is gonna always look like staged, because it is. You are capturing individual strikes and techniques, not the whole fight.
Eh, it’s a lot easier to change colour of a chicken or model of trees than to create enjoyable historically accurate fight. And even that enviromental stuff is intentionally not 100% historicaly accurate, they made more forrests than there should be (due to silver mines), they made types of forrests that couldn’t be there because they wanted more variability, and they wanted the forrests interesing so they made them more “wild” then they actually were. You see, it is a game, not a simulator. In the first place it needs to be fun, and this applies on combat hundredfold.
Mate, without the need to scrutinise those swordsmen website in detail, it is quite obvious from alpha 0.4 that every single move is stage fencing technique, as I believe all stage fencers here would confirm. The question rather is - is there anything Warhorse can do to make combat more accurate without the need to re-build the whole combat system and game mechanics? I think there is, and will start a separate thread on the issue because we might be trespassing here a bit… I will be looking forward to follow up on this discussion there.
Hahah currently it is 100% stage combat simulator.
could you provide some sources which you believe that represent the “historically accurate” way?
will do in the new thread along with suggestions how real fencing could be “implanted” into the existing KCD combat. But there are good resources , incl. videos, on the Internet, which have been mentioned at this forum previously by other people.
I know about other people posting about this inaccuracy. But I was just curious what you had in mind.
i think it’s just hyperbolic agitation because he doesn’t like the fact that you can slash against armor, which is a player choice. afterall, it’s better to design a system that can be used for both armor and unarmored. for armored, you can use thrust against the face or on pigface helmets, go in for grappling maneuvers and try to get the enemy to the ground. stage fighting looks different than this, so i cannot take him seriously when he keeps repeating that. also, i have to question if he actually spent much time exploring the fighting moves, or was just exasperated the first time he saw sword clash against armor, shut off game, and came here to complain.
