What do you think of first person?

Combat system
#42

I’m really happy with their choice of first person only. I’ve always championed that viewpoint myself and am super pleased to see WH taking a firm stance on the matter. I won’t repeat my reasons why as I’ve posted them in detail in the previous thread of the same topic, but primarily it’s much more immersive IMO.

I’d also rather they concentrate 100% on nailing all first person than divert any resources to third.

Ideally I don’t want to see a HUD at all for 90% of the time I’m playing and contrary to the OP I don’t believe it’s necessary most of the time. Current HUD is way too big and obtrusive; it should be much smaller and dynamic to boot (elements hide when not needed). I also don’t want to be playing with any kind of a crosshair.

I’d like to have the cutscenes and dialogue options in first person too if possible, though I concede that it’d make story telling in more difficult at times I think it’d be do-able.

#43

? I thought the combat would be mainly focused on one-on-one, and that fighting multiple enemies at once, was supposed to be as hard as possible unless you have allies?

#44

sorry, but i completely disagree, with the fact you call it GODlike, and unskilled. It allows you to be skilled, to react on other actions besides the thing you are attacking. You just have more control over your character and incoming information. Seriously, matching first person with skill based, is completely ridiculous. BUT first person relies heavily on reaction time, while third person relies more on your reaction type. 3rd person is more strategical action (games aren’t perfect, so don’t compare one game with another in this aspect) And because am not anymore in my teens, my reaction speed isn’t that great anymore, so i want the skill to depend on your choices, like your weapon stance, mode, your attack direction, distance you keep and so on.

#45

To be realistic as possible…
So to take this to the extreme. They will fail no matter what.
I personally hate the time all games spend to make it more “realistic”, while other aspects of the game, that make it unbelievable stay the same.
So in terms of first person and third person. Unless you have an oculus rift or multiple screens, third person is more immersive. Because: You can reduce the HUD way more, you have a more realistic field of view and spatial awareness. The computer only has limited ways to give you information, visually and 2 or 4 directions of sound. Which means you’ll have to find other ways to give your player the feedback they need.

And the obsession with character’s armor, is probably because, there are SOOOOO many games with ugly fantasy armor, that most people would want to see for once good, normal, functional armor. and also LAYERS (jizzz)

#46

So to reach this, you’ll probably buy the oculus rift or virtiux omni? Otherwise, my arguments still stand that your view is distorted. And in melee third persons, landing your hits are not that hard (unless done bad) so which brings me back, to the fact that third persons are harder to do, they require tweaking (which is done badly in some games)

#47

In chivalry you get that extra difficulty of constantly having to look back, like TF2. This is again an extra layer based on reaction speed skill, which I said in other comments I dislike for multiple reasons. Because I’m not a 12 year old, I don’t have that reaction speed, and prefer the skill to be dependent on my choices, my thinking.

#48

Like you said limitations, the third person is an alternative for this representation of real world. To give an realistic amount of information, view distance, blablabla. But if you just want it to LOOK realistic, you’re right. But I put realism in function of gameplay and not the other way around.

#49

Didn’t know they are taking a firm stance, I thought they just made there decision.
Like I said in other comments, I’d rather they finish the game and then maybe look into it, than removing promised features in favor of that percentage of players who would feel better with third person.

I don’t understand why you don’t want HUD? Do you want to go to your character menu every time you want to see your conditions, and health and stuff. THAT will be breaking the immersion a lot, definitely while you are running for your life, and you want to know if you are able to handle a dude or so.
But if KCD was just first person and not camera-on-character, they could have giving the health status by, wounding the hands and stuff. Maybe they can still do it, but that will be very costly, doing all those wound models, animations and effects.

#50

I would like to have the ability to see my character in game on occasion just to check out the gear I have on in good detail, etc. I am all for the first person game play for combat and everything.

#51

I’ve been playing Skyrim (+Frostfall, + RND) and Fallout NV (hardcore mode) with modded minimal HUDs for a long time. During play 95% of the time I have no HUD visible and very, very rarely all HUD elements at the same time (if ever).

For most situations you don’t need to see all or often any HUD elements, but you do need the info at times as you rightly say. Here’s my Skyrim setup for e.g.:

  • All HUD elements and text are smaller, more translucent and repositioned.

  • If I’m taking hits, my health bar will show. Same for stamina. It will fade out when 100% or holding steady, though remain visible when at a critical level (user customisable).

  • I have a key bound to compass, but I never need it really.

  • I have removed the player map marker indicator, AKA GPS (mod).

  • I have a key bound to show the time, very small top right corner (mod).

  • Disabled crosshair completely. I have no problem picking up items and archery is vastly improved by removing it. Number of arrows is a small line of text and numbers which is only visible when holding my bow. Text for picking up/interacting with items is still displayed contextually as normal, but smaller.

  • If I’m cold or wet (Frostfall), I can tell by a dynamic bar which only shows when my status is changing or reaching dangerous levels (also hot-keyed/M4).

  • I am told when I’m hungry, thirsty or need sleep (RND) via a small text notification, top left of the screen (also hot-keyed/M5). This could also be handled via a dynamic bar as with Frostfall, though the mod author didn’t implement it.

  • FOV should be user customisable. I run at 90 and things look good to me.

  • IMO the map for KCD should be a selectable inventory item and same with the compass if one is required at all.

You do need HUD elements visible most of the time. Having no HUD at all isn’t really an option though as you do need to know your status and other pieces of info - But this can be achieved through dynamic elements and really asking the question ‘is this really necessary, and if so how small/simple/unobtrusive can it be?’

As to Warhorse’s ‘firm stance’ I thought they were adamant that there wasn’t going to be a third person as it went against Dan’s vision for maximum immersion? As stated previously, I’m a little surprised that they didn’t maintain first person for all the cutsenes/dialogue given how important they believe it is that you’re locked into this viewpoint (maybe they tried it but found it too hard to tell the story?).

Another thing to bear in mind is that they believe they’re doing things differently and really maxxing out the immersion from first person mode (full body + anims for all actions). If third person mode was offered not only would it eat up dev time/money but also some people wouldn’t experience any of their hard work in this area - And this is something which, having given it a proper chance, they may actually find themselves preferring due to the excellent implementation.

I’m not totally against third person for those who want it (really), but there are so many third person games out there already that I’m personally really excited about what WH are doing here in trying to push first person as that’s my preference - I don’t want any of the first person goodness to be compromised by including a second viewpoint.

(FYI - I do occasionally pop into third person in Skyrim/Fallout NV to take a look at my character, but I wouldn’t actually play the game in that mode. I also enjoyed playing H&D2 (loved in fact!), Mafia 2 and Max Payne - All in third person, but I feel that first is best for KCD and I want to see the devs push the envelope here).

2 Likes
#52

FOV can be changed in all FP games, also when you search small objects and interact with enviroments the FP view is better. You say that third person is more inmersive but it depends of the game, in the Witcher I like the third person because the character is the most important of the game and see the character makes it more inmersive. You have to believe that you are Geralt. But in KC the enviroments, the combat and the story are main character, and that’s better live in first person.

About the armors I give you the reasson. I’ve waited a long time to see real and functional armors in a RPG but I still prefer first person although that means see less my armor

Regards

#53

Third person will ruin the entire “realistic” ability of it.

#54

In third person when something goes wrong the character on screen is an idiot. In first person I am an idiot. I have you to judge what is more immersive :smile:

1 Like
#55

Yeah, latest years, the finally started to work on HUD’s and stuff, just fade away when you don’t need it. I was expecting that, but I thought you meant with NO HUD, no HUD at all. So sorry.

And idk why people say this, that there are already so many third person games. I’m getting sick of the MANY first person games. Mainly shooters and games like chivalry. Like a lot of shooters i play, sanctum 2, payday 2, Borderlands 2, i"m annoyed that it isn’t in third person. So if people feel like there are too many third person games, while I feel the opposite, then I would want to know some statistics (with third person, you need to spend time in it, so games more frequently mess it up)

#56

Hehe, Mass Effect 3 SPACE does everything issue reminds me of that.

But I find reaching full immersion is a delusion. Because with immersion, you either have it or you don’t, guess in what category games are.
I don’t like playing simulations, and I could do some fencing in real life or armor brawling.

#57

I’m fine with the first-person view in general, but I would like to see an optional ‘vanity mode’ which would allow you to see your character in third-person (just for taking screenshots and such, not for normal gameplay).

#58

I wonder if it also comes down to how you like to play games - I want to play myself in another world, rather than play as another pre-defined character in another world. Obviously we’ll be taking on the role of Henry in KCD, but the more Henry can become me the better, for how I like to play at least.

I don’t want to see my avatar doing cool stuff - I want to feel like I’m really there, doing the stuff myself.

Maybe you’re right about the first person/third person thing in terms of frequency these days, but to me it always used to feel like first person - PC, third person - Console. I’m also sick of the ‘it’s a first person game, but obviously you have to switch to third person when driving a vehicle/riding a horse’ mentality. I do get that it’s more work to fully implement the first person mode (high detailed interior/close up models and proper inertia for a start), but often the decision just seems to be one of laziness along the lines of ‘that’s how it’s done’ - I really applaud WH for taking it on.

#59

The difference is simply described. 3rd person view is “enemy is there and the character I am controlling is here”, while 1st person is “enemy is there and I am here”. Imagine all the situations where you are hiding behind the corner and in 1st person you have to (as in real life) peek around the corner to see what’s there. In 3rd person you just turn the camera slightly to the side and you see clearly - while your character is just staring at the wall. And in addition, the feeling I had from combat videos was great, this was the first game where fencing really felt like fencing, not just hitting enemy with a sharp stick. 3rd person view would never ever give you that feel.

#60

I completely disagree with your last line. ( according to what I said earlier, you just ignore that) I think the mechanics suffer too much to give you that FEEL, and feelings are subjectively. So still, KCD decide to sacrifice gameplay for immersion, and yes I recognize that immersion is gameplay on its own.

#61

And for the hiding behind things. Unless you have controls for peeking, like some games do. You have to move your complete body around the corner, which feels less realistic, than someone listening for activity. I don’t say that watching walls is realistic, but like the peeking, it also requires an slight animation, like they do in more recent (stealth) games. Again, these immersion or believability or reality is all about budget. And AGAIN, games only provide us the visual and not perfect directional sound. So our other sense don’t provide us information in games.

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