New stretch goal(s)

huh? I didn’t say it was a mass using, but they already existed back then and were used even before the hussite wars.

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Funny that you have Jan Žižka as avatar, the man who introduced firearms as one of the main weapons of field warfare, and yet you are against their use in a game that is basically from the same era and place.

We can debate what amounts to “mass use”, but the fact remains that field artillery and firearms were one of the cornerstones of Hussite tactics against elite heavy cavalry.

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Why do you beg for that?

Here, enjoy some period píšťala and hákovnice:

I would be so certain about the “same era and place”. And correct me if i’m wrong, but we did not play as a Hussite or in the times of Hussites wars under the command of Jan Žižka. I would say you are a bit further in the future :wink:

Correct me if I am wrong, but Hussites did not invent firearms, they only came up with tactics of their useful employment on the battlefield - the period firearms were too heavy and complicated to load and use in the open battlefield, which were all drawbacks eliminated by the wagon fort.

Píšťala and hákovnice were distinguished as different firearms in the Czech language already at turn of 14th and 15 century which means that “protofirearms” must have been available long before 1403 when the game takes place.

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Not to hijack the current discussion about firearms (which I’m pretty sure could use its own thread such as this) but this thread is aimed at potential stretch goals.

Yeah I think this went a bit off-topic
and concerning firearms I think they havent been used back then only maybe 50 years later and not in high numbers.
So I dont mind if we will maybe see a firearm but that should not be a focus of the game. They have been experimental too at this time, not too good for actual combat

not 50 years, less than that. but still, a blacksmith son acquiring a rare early firearm? that goes into the realm of historical fantasy. and what would you do with it? use it like a shotgun? and then you’re defenselessly if you miss or it deflects off his armor, not to mention the preparation time. but why get into that. just the idea of a random nobody who just uses the gun makes no sense at all in the context of this game. leave it out.

Ah sorry, I again forgot that you are the Developer and know the only way how it could be implemented. A historical fantasy is actually beginning of the 15th century without firearms. True fact. Moreover, how is a random nobody who becomes a knight and saves a king less fantasy than a blacksmith that actually creates firearms acquiring a firearm?

Where did you read that you will become a knight and save the king? Since game is trying to be realistic, i didn’t recall from my history classes anything about blacksmith Henry saving the king.

Maybe you didn’t pay attention, and maybe it’s not supposed to be 100% realistic.

A few interesting facts from a here:

  • the number of armourers in the Czech towns was much higher then in German towns
  • in the Prague old town, the armourers made up 18% of craftsmen working with metal (and 5% of the total number of craftsmen)
  • the historical records mostly mentioned armourers as creditors and almost never as debtors, which shows their good economical position
  • while there was a steep decline in the general number of armourers at the turn of 14th-15th century, the number of firearm makers were rising very quickly
  • unlike other armourers, there is no record of firearm makers’ guild (i.e. anyone could start making them without having to become a guild member first)
  • one of the reasons of very high numbers of firearms in the hussite armies was that castle armories had made large stockpiles of firearms just before the revolution (i.e. including period when the game takes place)
  • the Hussites were not the first to deploy firearms, but were first to deploy them in mass numbers

So, it was quite feasible for a craftsmen working with metal to get hands on a firearm, especially in situation of civil war when lord of local castle would try to arm as many people as possible with whatever he had in the armory.

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in 1400 the manufacture of firearms was more a matter of the bell-founder, less of forging. The weapons were mostly fire tubes and arquebuses, occasionally also extremely heavy pipe fittings for siege guns. So rather nothing for our Henry, he had a cart for transporting needed. :slight_smile:

Tournament - yes please, but, will Henry become a Knight? Then it goes unfortunately only for a squire.

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Let there be guns! <- said in queen Anne of France’s voice

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As an answer, please see the picture of 1400s Czech píšťala and hákovnice.
http://forum.kingdomcomerpg.com/uploads/default/4298/feab293a115e29a4.jpg

Heavy and cumbersome to use? Yes.
Too large to be carried casually when no fight is expected? Yes.
So heavy that it could not be effectively carried (/cart needed) when you expect a fight? No way.

Unable to reload during 1v1 fight? Yes.
The most effective weapon against heavily armed opponent (1st shot only), with a cold weapon being used to finish him, instead of reloading? ABSOLUTELY!

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Don´t forget Powder-keg, bag stone balls,loading rod and a smoking fuze cord :slight_smile:

absolute not, actually. since you’ll miss him, and at that range he’ll be on you faster than a starving pitbull. also, it wasn’t very effective against armor, it was used mainly to target horses and cause the knights to fall off

I just add one interesting thing. Word pistol is from original czech (bohemian) word píšťala.

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@213 i don’t think you understand physics…if the guy is in front of him and he shoots the bullet goes forward. It’s not a guaranteed miss there is a chance of missing and hitting just like bows Quote “since you’ll miss him, and at that range”. Also what range are we talking about here if i recall correctly the effective range of a hákovnice out ranges that of a archer. Also if the knight falls off his horse its a hit and the knight loses a lot of his combat ability.

i forgot to say if you shoot him at safe range, you’ll miss him. shoot him at close range, unless you do hit a vital part, you now have a large useless tube in your hand.

in any case, penetrative properties of early firearms were bad enough horse targeting was a more effective strategy. even then, it was the use of volley fire which produced the best results.

using the hand cannon like a shotgun at close range is a fantasy due to its inherently ineffective nature as an individual use weapon. they are not like guns of today, i think people have this confusion. it’s not like a glock or a “gat” you pull out and shoot then you just throw away and do something else. “sniping” from long range is equally disastrous.

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