during the Middle Ages, religion was a very important instance. Will there be this in the game? This could of course also use for laws, reputation and quests.
What do you think?
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It has to be there. It wasn’t so idealistic, but I’m more afraid of too much pejorative view in game actually…
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I want it there! My gay blacksmith will find his lover and the church will try to crush us! We may only be two, but together we are strong and love will prevail!
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Well I guess you cant avoid pejorative view on religion in action game. Because you will do things that common people just did not do.
But you can compensate for this for example by adding wise and kind characters that would show christinaty in better light. Interesting would be haveing some saint there. But I did litle of research and I found only one relevant and living saint in that time and that is Elizabeth from Reut but she lived in germany.
Shame that saint John of Nepomuk died in 1393 - he would be great to have there.
Well they did say this game isn’t meant to be an “historical lecture”, so maybe they can take some artistic license and include John Of Nepomuk.
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Just realized, that there ought to be some tension between Catholic church and Jan Hus. Still, things shouldn’t be just black and white at all.
I hope they show both the good thing the church did as well the questionable things. I am not christian but I hope Warhorse rise above the modern anti-theistic fad to capture the full picture.
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Hus was born in Husinec, Bohemia, in 1369. At an early age he traveled to Prague, where he supported himself by singing and serving in churches. His conduct was positive and his commitment to his studies was remarkable.[4] In 1393, Hus earned the degree of Bachelor of Arts at the University of Prague, and he earned his master’s degree in 1396. In 1400, he was ordained as a priest. He served as rector of the university in 1402–03. He was appointed a preacher at the newly built Bethlehem chapel around the same time. Hus was a strong advocate for the Czechs, and therefore the Realists, and he was influenced by the writings of John Wycliffe. Although church authorities proscribed many works of Wycliffe in 1403, Hus translated Trialogus into Czech and helped to distribute it.[4]
Hus spoke out against indulgences, but he could not carry with him the men of the university. In 1412, a dispute took place, on which occasion Hus delivered his address Quaestio magistri Johannis Hus de indulgentiis. It was taken literally from the last chapter of Wycliffe’s book, De ecclesia, and his treatise, De absolutione a pena et culpa. Hus asserted that no Pope or bishop had the right to take up the sword in the name of the Church; he should pray for his enemies and bless those that curse him; man obtains forgiveness of sins by true repentance, not money. The doctors of the theological faculty replied, but without success. A few days afterward, some of Hus’s followers, led by Vok Voksa z Valdštejna, burnt the Papal bulls. Hus, they said, should be obeyed rather than the Church, which they considered a fraudulent mob of adulterers and Simonists.
He was burned at the stake for heresy against the doctrines of the Catholic Church, including those on ecclesiology, the Eucharist, and other theological topics. Hus was a key predecessor to the Protestant movement of the sixteenth century, and his teachings had a strong influence on the states of Europe, most immediately in the approval of a reformist Bohemian religious denomination, and, more than a century later, on Martin Luther himself.
Wow incredible that I had not learned about this man sooner. He was the precursor to Martin Luther! This would be a great place to showcase him.
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I thing that in biger cities the things might have been black and white. Priests living rich lives. Selling of “indulgence tickets” (or how is it called in english). But that would be question for historian. But game (at least first act) will not take part in big city so there should not be too much of “big bad church”.
And to John Huss… I look on wiki and it might (or not) be coincidence but he started to preach in Betlehem chapel in 1402 on the 15th of October… which is also around the time Venceslus IV. was kiddnaped and imprisoned.
UPDATE: I see that in meantime i was putting together my post you have already post John Huss CV. So dont be mad for repeating some things.
No worries Proky! (I love that name 
)
I still belive that Hussite Wars will be the topic of Kingdome Come (later Acts of course). So Jan Hus has to be introduced (although not-in-person probably). For Czech people he is well known historical figure and his life si tied to theolgical books and preaching.
It would be great if Hussite war would be included in later acts and even more greater to have John Huss in the first one. But as story of the first act is not taking part in Prague (as i judge from the game map) I fear we might not meet him… bu he sill might be mentioned.
This is what they said on Kickstarter
"We want to show people how it worked, how the church behaved at the time (two popes, indulgencies, witch hunts). And we want to let the player to make his own opinion on all that. You may hunt the witch and bring her to "justice" or help her escape the inquisition."
"Our philosophy is "be authentic, depict, don’t comment". So there will be things even we don’t like but happened frequently. This applies also to religion. Mind that The Church was heavily criticized for its practices and there were also 2 popes (antipope in Avignon) in these times. Which lead to Hussite wars and a bit later to Lutheran reformation. So you will see all sorts of stuff connected to religion - positive and negative."
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There is something to discuss. There weren’t many witch hunts during this period. It is a matter of later centuries, together with systematic torture practice. Catholic church was more concerned with “heretics” like Jan Hus.
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To be perfectly honest this is something I am worried about. While it is true that the game is set in the early days of reformist thought as well as religious schisms and abuse of power, in general the Church and faith were not some harmful, destructive, negative powers as often portrayed by the popular rhetoric today, particularly in the US and by teenagers on the internet. They were indivisible, seamlessly integrated parts of society and everyday life. Securing a place in Heaven, leading a good Christian life were familiar and natural concepts for the folk of middle ages. Far removed from our ideas about religion, or rather a lack or even choice thereof, today.
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Yeah it will be there.
Later GAMES of the trilogy, I think, not the acts of Deliverance . Deliverance will be set in 1403, judging from the logo.
@TOUGHGUY Weren’t you a “Pope” before? I’m completely sure that I saw “Pope” as your badge, now it shows “Peasant”
Yikes, after reading this now I’m somewhat worried. I’m hoping that the developers won’t jump on the bandwagon of being anti theistic, or trying to prove a point that “religion is bad,” or “look at what evil things religion made these people do.” This attitude is pervasive in society just look at “The Simpsons.” However, I think this negative impression of religion is WAY overblown, it happened but it wasn’t endemic and generally speaking the peoples lives were more boring than anything else.
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I don’t think it’s anti-theist. All Christians know about the catholic days of indulgences (which Catholicism is actually a mixture of Christianity and a pagan religion I won’t name or get into here you can believe it or not) as well as their many other crimes against people. Though warhorse is saying they will portray these crimes of Catholicism, but they will also be showing the good people who happen to be catholic and especially the good catholic reformist Jan Hus.
This is kinda off topic but I wanted to share a little bit of history. Originally indulgences were pardons from physical punishment but some of the more corrupt popes began to allow their agents to sell them as means of salvation. Also the catholic church was perverted throughout the dark ages (c. 400-1000 a.d.) by converts (many forced) who held onto some of their pagan practices and ideas. As for religion in the game I think that it is essential in some form.
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