Mapsize - Does size matters?

[Beorn]

hello together,

(for me) surprisingly lots of people are worried about the “small” mapsize. (compared to some other big rpgs/mmos)
Does size matters?
What i’ve experienced so far in live&games, not realy. I prefer quality than quantity. I think, that a huge map looks first nice to explore, but after a while it keeps the same and the same and you already forgotten the first few places, you explored. Is it not better to have a smaller world, where you get bounded? You build a relationship to the landscape and the people. You don*t kill just villager 1 and then go to townB to do something ells and nothing realy happend. A death of your favourit innkeeper would feel much stronger. And i want to feel something, live the story, and not just rushing through to get your virtual map complete…

Size comparison from a previous ws-blog: http://kingdomcomerpg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/blog_011_7.jpg

What do you think about that topic? Does size matters? (map^^)

[Ser_Awesome]

It depends on the game and setting. There are merits to smaller maps such as a growing attachment and familiarity to the local, but there are a lot of merits to a larger map too. Lots of people claim ‘quality over quantity’ but I never quite bought that argument and find that a large size has a quality of its own. The size certainly bothers me, but we also scarcely know anything about it so it’s far too soon to make a call.

[cxd]

Hello, I think that the map is big enough for a singleplayer game. When I compare the map to GTA SA, then I think there was enough to discover. Maybe the 9 squarekilometers sound small, but I think it’s enough. And there is also coming two more acts.

[Cruentus]

I also like bigger maps but then the developer has to guarantee, that it’s still varied. That’s one thing that bothered me in Skyrim: The map was huge and there were a lot of different, special places. But between them there were also a lot generic castles and dungeons. If you have seen one, you have seen them all (maybe a bit exaggerated :))

So, for KCD I am okay with the smaller mapsize so I can feel at ease with the world. Maybe they can combine the worlds from Act II with Act I to get a bigger but lively world?

[Favorlock]

I’m not so much worried about the size of the map, they claim that it will be about the size of Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion’s map, which is plenty big in my mind. It also sounds like there will be one or two new maps that will be made for the second and third module from how they explained. The gameplay should more than make up for the mapsize though, plus there is the prospect of modding the game, so we probably will see plenty of user made content providing the game has a successful release.

[Gladix]

Nope it doesnt. I thought San Andreas was huge, but it is one of the smallest here. It depends on game, type etc… If you are travelling on foot, thant its pointless to have acces to square miles of spaces. I rather have smaller map, with more detail.

[jordibo]

You should have also posted the link to the original article. There are many interesting thoughts about the map size. http://warhorsestudios.cz/index.php?page=blog&entry=blog_011&lang=en

[Ser_Awesome]

What does San Andreas have to do with it? That map was 36sq km, while Kingdom Come is 9 sq km.

[Manningham]

The map size matters!

In the article one of you posted, he says that the important locations are arranged in a kind of ring, with the center of the map being the largely empty space.

In that case, I would love to see more wilderness/empty space extending the map out from those important locations, the reason being that modders will have a field day with it. I’m looking forward to the mods that, without adding too much content, really flesh out the wilderness as a survival/hunting/gathering/banditing game in and of itself.

It makes sense for a story-driven game to have a condensed map and there’s so much in this game that I’m looking forward to. However, to be perfectly honest, I’m even more looking forward to how modders might turn this game into a really open sandbox…

[213]

i think open sandbox really translates to big empty space. skyrim did this. look what happened. just cause did this, and most people just fly around in planes ignoring the land. far cry did this, so the story teleport you around different locations.

the value of having a big empty space is really none in gaming-terms. i think having less populated areas is good. but big empty space=common error by game devs kcd wishes to avoid. good for them.

[Helmersen]

Normally, the bigger the better, but I’d rather have quality than quantity. When that’s said, quality and quantity is king. Open fields are not that bad if it is accurate and able to give the crowded areas a rest. But I’m sure the devs are thinking of this as well all the time

[Ryan_Russell]

It’s not the size that matters but how you use it. Is the map going to look authentic or modern. Make different qualities of maps based on price. If you had a map back then they were expensive and not always accurate. Maybe as we explore our map becomes more accurate.

[Maarloeve]

I know skyrim has a rather big map but somehow it feels so small and unreal, takes 15 mins to climb the largest mountain and 1 min to cut through a thick forest etc. I know the witcher 2 doesnt have a big map, but i enjoy wandering off in the flotsam forest, its bigger than most other forests ive ever seen in video games, as well as Risen 2 dark water, the mapsize isnt that big, but you can actually get lost in the forest, which is amazing. i dont know why these thing happen tho

[Gladix]

As I said, it depends on the type of the game. If you can fly in a plane, then that map is obviously small. If you only travell by foot then that map is obviosuly more than enough

[Flashfire]

I was just reading some opinions about the map sizes for Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas and even though they were both comparable, Fallout 3 had a map that some felt (maybe rightfully so) was more more conducive to open exploration. Locations were spread out well, while in New Vegas the majority of stuff was centered around the highways and New Vegas itself. On top of that, you could get seriously punished if you wandered too far out of a particular area if you came across deathclaws (much harder in New Vegas, which I actually preferred), cazadors, etc. There were also more mountainous regions that limited how one could move around.

The underlining point is in how you can have two similar map sizes but one could be designed much better than another. At this point I think the Warhorse team sounds like they have a good plan for the map they’re going to use based on the game they’re trying to make.

[Hellboy]

People were complaining, that our map is too small (approx. 9km2) and that Oblivion is much larger (41km2). So I did a little test… I run from the northernmost part of the map (Cloud ruler temple) to Bravil. It took me 7 minutes on foot. Even if I run 20km/h, thats 2,5 km. So there is no chance that Oblivion has 41 square km of playable area. It could be 15km2. At most. In our game, it takes 7 minutes to run from the city to stables from our live stream (approx 1.5km). The whole map would take approx 20 min. So lets repeat the same thing I said before - our map is about the same size as Oblivion

[LordCrash]

Well, you would run with 12,86 km/h in KCD then (1500m in 7min) which is still way too fast for someone wearing a hauberk or other armor and maybe weapons. Especially if you consider that the ground is likely muddy. At that speed the protagonist would most likely be totally exhausted before reaching his goal forcing him to stop or at least slow down. And he would be unable to fight at his destination…

Walking from the nothern to the southern border of the map of KCD with approx 3km distance should require about 25 minutes at a fast walking speed at 7km/h (5km/h is the average for the human walking speed) which is fast enough for an heavily armed but also well trained soldier who still wants to be able to properly fight for his life after walking a few hundered meters…

The “problem” with the TES games is that they don’t represent realism, neither in design nor in numbers. It’s all “stylized” stuff and of course running speed is WAY overpowered in these games (especially if you have the proper stats for that). It’s one of the artistic freedom when creating a fantasy game instead of a realistic medieval game…

[specialsymbol]

Yes, unfortunately: map size matters. Of course a wide map with too few POIs isn’t interesting, but I’d rather have a wider map with spread POIs than a smaller condensed map with one attraction next to the other.

This means: if you have ideas or means to implement only a certain number of things into a map I have no problem if they are spread out a little bit for a bigger map.

Or the other way: I wouldn’t want to sacrifice map size for a more “condensed” feel.

[Madaras]

Map size “Matters” of course it does. I think a better question is “Is bigger always better?” the answer to that is no. We can see procedural generated maps making very large landscapes that don’t look too bad, but as 213 stated people will simply run right through them. There is no point to them other than to give you somewhere to hunt and move through. If that area could be used for building or settling. If it would change dynamically that would be a different story, unfortunately no game does that yet (I think the new everquest is aiming for it). So that being said with this game keeping it “real” (AKA realistic) I think about myself as a person. I certainly wouldn’t do the traveling my avatar does in Skyrim way too much walking for me I’ll take the next carriage out of town. Also one of my main complaints about Skyrim is you have no connection to the world at all. Sure there are characters you like, but it’s not like “What! Goren’s dead T_T NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!” All you hear in the background in skyrim is “another one bites the dust” I want a game that will emotionally touch me. I want a vicarious experience. I believe that in this case the small map will be great for this game.

[Hellboy]

Our designers did a test and tried to run for 7 minutes in other RPGs. Initially I thought, that some games are much bigger than they actually are. Of course that speed is the most important factor here and its not the best accurate measurement, but Skyrim, Oblivon, Fallout 3 and New Vegas all have map very similar or even smaller than us. I wonder how would RDR do in this test, but I am too lazy to search for the disc We dont want to enter any “whos the biggest” competition, but since some people thought that 9km2 is a disadvantage, its worth saying, that it isnt. Other games are about same and just have misleading info about the size.